Groin Shots.......

Thank you for all of that Boris...it all makes sense.

I cannot imagine trying to place a shot good enough to the femur or leg in order to incapacitate an opponent. A shot to the groin has both of their legs to guide the kick all the way to the sweet spot if you miss low...crunching the testicles against the body and turning the opponent into an easy target, or allowing you escape time if that is your choice.

 

Couple things...

tWisT, can you point me in the direction of any proof of the femur being an easy bone to break? I just runs counter to the medical evidence I've seen.

As far as the groin shots effectiveness, I still question it's effectiveness in a fight. It sucks to get hit there in class, but thats an extremely different context than in the middle of a full adrenal dump situation. Personally I've eaten a groin shot during extreme pressure sparring and the only result was that I really saw red. I just fear it as a panacea.

In regards to the ease of getting it, it all depends on your opponent's posture. I do know that a solid bow to the inner or outer nerve line of the leg (using a Thai round with the latter) is in my opinion a far more dehabilitating blow. I was dropped in full contact sparring with one of those, and I've seen others experience the same thing.

However, even in that case adrenaline does amazing things. I wouldn't trust any sinlge technique to put a person down.

- Matt

 

I think some people are underplaying the groinshot here, I mean seriously now, if you had the choice of delivering one kick on an opponent, given it would strike with equal force wherever it hit, wouldnt you prefer to hit the groin?

Imagine if you will punching someone in the leg, ok it'll hurt, maybe give them a deadleg, but it almost certainly aint gonna stop them in their tracks, on the other hand if you imagine getting punched in the groin full force with the blow coming up between the legs...

Seriously, I understand what people are saying when they say that groin kicks are not the be all and end all of self defence but which one is going to stop you first, repeated blows to the groin or the head? Plus you have to take into account the fact that the attacker may well double up everytime you even feint at his groin which leads to the whole possibillity of kneeing his head.

Thats just an example btw, I'm not advocating punches to the groin or leg for self defence, maybe grabs to the groin but not punches.

 

The Femur is long and although it is strong it is still relatively easy to break with a strong kick. My friend was once attacked on a bridge by a man with a knife(Who Manged To Cut Him) And he turned and kicked the guy twice and managed to break the criminals leg with the first kick and follow thru with the second though not breaking it,the first kick snapped it. It all Has to do with body positioning but it is the easiest In my opinion,to break.

I Must Say,a groin shot has never put me down.... until after the conflict was over.

 

Some very interesting info Boris. To follow on from that, does it matter how and where the groin area is struck?

 

hard to judge tight jeans hold the balls up so under and up kicks sometimes you just hit the area between your scrotum and your **** so "in" kicks tend to be the thing... if you miss the scroat you are pretty damm near the centre of mass anyway and will displace him.. if you have flexability in your ankle heel first covers the base to the top thou I have heard anecdotal evidence about ankle damage.. YMMV

if they are static or just stepping they wont fall on you ... you have just sent force straight into there centre of mass/balance..

if they are really steaming in and topple you over you need to step aside anyway he must literally be charging or head down in which case it isn't an option..

the best times to hit are when he is exposing his axis mid step or retreating out of punching distance into your kicking range..

there is alsorts of sneaky footwork to gain the axis... most of which resides unrecognised in katas/forms from a multitude of MAs practiced by the uninformed

Boris
london

 

Boris, are you saying that the genitals is not necassarily the primary target, but the centre mass? Is this the base of the pubic bone sort of area?

By "in" kicks to you mean a stomping or thrusting type of kick?

 

no you hope to kick his balls into his **** its just that the two coincide roughly if you miss... the bladder area is vunrable to a degree as the muscles don't tend to be as tight but then again you are unlikly to wind him

YMMV

in = thrusting... doesn't have to overly so.. if you get my drift

Boris
london

 

Ok, I'm having difficulty visualising this. An upward kick (like kicking a football) or a forward kick (like kicking a door/mae-geri)?

The way I see it is a thrusting type kick (like a door/mae-geri) aimed at the base of the pubic bone or just below for the testicles. How far off am I?

Dare I ask what YMMV is???

 

Forget groin kicks.

Go for the eyes, throat and neck. :yeleyes:

The groin is generally the place most men defend the most and often very instinctively, so the other better targets are more likely to be able to be struck with decent force so you can make your escape. Use palm heels to the face for more force then rake the eyes or cross the fingers and hit into the throat at the base of the neck for more penetration.

A good strike on the carotid arteries or on the back of the neck will drop someone nicely allowing you to bugger off out of danger.

Alternatively take out one or other of the knees. Ditto the elbows.

You can also box the ears - hit with flat hands [palm heel] as hard as you can on the sides of the head it is really painful and quite effective if nothing else presents itself!

I would always go for the eyes neck or face first! But my main objective would be to get away.

 

I have to disagree with this. I am almost positive that in a fight, most guys would tend to protect their head areas by nature. In a dojo when fighting a lower belt, for sure I would think about protecting the groin (moreso after getting a real good hit the other day), but in a street fight, chances are that the first reaction is to protect against strikes coming to the head.

Besides all of this, it should be fairly easy in most cases to see just how prepared an opponent is for a tussle. That would be the time to make a very quick decision.

 

mae geri... just *** kick him your going you hit him again anyway

it could meam... your millage may vary

Boris
London

 

On impulse, I purchased a rattan walking stick for £5, a couple of weeks ago. It is slimmer than an Escrima baton, somewhat longer and with a wide curved handle. I have painful ankles, so this was a legitimate purchase. Of course, I do not use it much, as the aches vary from day to day.

At our KM studio, we sometimes train with umbrellas against knives, although they can be a little unwieldy. The walking stick,-------- very rapid. To those who are of an age to remember corporal punishment in British schools, the canes used then are just slightly slimmer than my rattan, which is also tougher and stiffer than the cane.

When I was at school, we had a lunatic old chemistry master who would rush up and down the lines of desks lashing out at all and sundry with his cane on our backs and shoulders and arms. Essential self defence requirements were to place exercise books under your blazer and hope the outline did not show through.

The speed with which this cane could be used was startling. Left and right, slash, slash, slash. On a sunny day you could see clouds of rising dust particles being beaten out of the blazers. And now I have got a stick. Knees, testicles, thighs, wrists, faces, necks, anywhere unprotected is grist to the mill.

Get one and practice Escrima and get really good. Hobble everywhere, complain about your poor old aching limbs to all your friends, tell your doctor as well. Then, when the day comes and you horse whip some impudent whippersnappers within inches of their misbegotten lives, you will have sufficient numbers of witnesses to attest to your good character and crippling ailments in court

Shots to the groin? Shots everywhere. Be merciless, kill your enemies and rejoice in the lamentations of their women. Conan the Barbarian last night, Channel 5. :woo:

Pericles

 

Excuse me, we can do other things apart from kicking someone in the groin.

You're entitled to your own opinion but I don't think much of raking the eyes, it's a messy way to take down someone.

 

I agree, but I think take downs are the best way to take someone down. :yeleyes:

 

My two cents: our Krav instructor told us that two of his private students were recently involved in speparate road rage incidents, and they both did a standard KM defence against someone approaching with a cocked fist, which is to throw your forarms up in fromt of you, palms facing inwards and elbows together, while leaning the fop half of your body and throwing a front kick to their knee or groin. In both cases the students went for the groin and in both cases it dropped the opponents. I don;t have first hand confirmation of this, but I do trust my instructor.

On the other hand, there is clearly a lot of evidence that very hyped-up people can shrug it off until after the fight is over.

My conclusion is that while there is no one strike guaranteed fight stopper, it's still a decent percentage play is you can get one in accurately and are ready to follow it up. Doing it and expecting that to be that doesn't sound like a great idea. On the whole i would rather get a strong punch to the person's jaw if I could, but I like the KM technique as it doesn;t let them get too close.

On the "men instinctively defend their groin" points, that's true, but everyone also instinctively defends dangerous areas such as the eyes and throat.

 

Hi Pachanga,

Good story. The KM technique pits the strongest, longest limb against a soft target to keep the assailant at a distance. You can also whack in 3-4 strikes in quick succession to the knees, thighs and lowered head. Our Israeli instructor advocates battering away until you get bored, but he is smiling when he says that.

It is about making sure you cannot be attacked again. There could be other attackers on the way to get you and a display of ruthless intent will send the message that you are not to trifled with.

Pericles

 

Karate & TKD use the instep to hit the groin, but the attacker will most probably not have his legs wide open for you to be able to plant that sort of shot properly. In a self defence situation I'd imagine a MT teep will be more effective. I say that cos from the target's point of view, the kick comes from infront (teep), not from underneath (front kick with instep). Is that right?


Fortunately, I've never had to use them. Even more fortunately, I've never been in the receiving end of one(was with a cup - no probs). I've read several books, MA and first aid, stating that groin shots can be lethal.

 

Just wear stiletos or steel toe caps, you cant go wrong with them

 

Kicking a determined guy in the groin probably won't stop him right away, but later, he's gonna be in a good bit of pain.