Grappling the most underated/negleted part of self defense?

I just finished watching 2 hours of street fights... I thought grappling was important for self defense, but I thought the statistics 95% of fights go to the ground or are won on the ground quoted by the Gracies exaggerated the importance of grappling. It seems like this closer to the truth! In every single fight they clinched and went to the ground, even in momentarily. I think anyone with 6 months of grappling experience would have enough knowledge to establish a position and finish the fight, most of the time there were no soccer kicks at the heads of the people on top and if there were, they were quickly broken up.

edit: I'm sorry about my spelling and grammar, but I can't be bothered to correct.

 

Yes...

but are any of these street fights involving trained people? And any with weapons or multiple opponents on one?

I imagine if the street fights involved trained stand up fighters on one end, they'd probably end before they got to the ground. The propensity for untrained people in streetfights to go to the ground is clear and well-established, and not in question. The question is the value of training in a particular range, and my point is that if you are training anything, this point still doesn't necessarily make ground training any more important or effective than stand-up.

Before the UFC's, grappling was certainly the most underrated and neglected part of self defense, now that has all but completely changed. I'd go so far as to say there is too much of an emphasis on the grappling now a days, in all but the most traditional schools.

Having whatched all those fights Bon, and with your stand up skills, would fighting against any or many of the opponents in those fights lead YOU to the ground?

 

Yes you are correct. Grappling is a very important skill. I take a couple grappling classes a week (or try to), and whenever me and Andrew (my teacher) spar it always ends up on the ground. I think every martial artist should at least know some ground fighting. Pure striking would only work against an opponent who doesn't have an martial arts experience in my opinion.

 

What p!**e* me off is the amount of qualified 'grappling' Instructors have appeared. I've recently noticed that a lot of they're training consists of 2 seminars a year, or something ridiculous like that! That means eff-all!!!

Col

 

I with you bud!

<Soapbox mode>
Same thing happens in Filipino Martial Arts. Lots of TKD or Karate instructors seem to think they can take a few seminars then add FMA to their art - and teach it. How would they feel if I did 3 seminars in Karate then started advertising that I teach Karate alongside my FMA? :woo:
</soapbox mode>

 

Agreed Grappling the Shinizt, but more important to me is that the training is hands on practical,doing it with a partner who doesn't want it done to him.
Much more fun then forms or kicking in the air.

 

In line with the question I think the truly most neglected part of self defence is the bits that teach you what to do prior to the encounter taking place at all.

Things like body language, zoning, verbal strategies should be focused on as much as any physical techniques. After all, physicial defending youself is what happens when everything else has failed imo.

Grappling is very important but the most important part re self defence is definitely as was said before...the clinch

 

Without a doubt wholeheartedly agree, having great grappling skills is a great aspect to have.

Personally, the best thing MA has taught me is reading body language and knowing when to back off/ change my strategy.

In my mind if you end up in a fight there is no "win". All lose something everytime.

 

Free form is right. Too many people watch a few grappling videos and UFC's and figure they can teach the stuff. You have got to be able to explain it and take it to the next level if you want your students to be good at it. Always be wary of the instructor who replies "here and there" when you asked them where they learned grappling. More likely they spent a lot of time with videos and wrestling in their back yard.
But as a woman, I do agree that groundfighting is a vital part of self defence. The best thing my old sensei ever did for me was show me how to bridge effectively - it saved me from a very nasty situation!

 

It amazes me how few "ladies seld defence" courses have a decent amount of time devoted to groundfighting, especially working from the guard. A good appreciation of controlling a person in your guard and finishing a fight from there is essential for a woman - think about it!

 

Wouldn't grappling in a street fight with multiple attackers be a bad idea. The moment you go down to the ground with the attacker would open up a window for the other attackers to kick you in the head, or somthing ruthless like that.

It would certainly be very useful to know what to do if in a grappling situation, i just wouldn't initiate the grappling. I would much prefer striking attacks or 'runfu'

 

All good - all true.

Grappling in the street with multiple attackers is a very bad idea - that doesn't always stop it from happening though.

 

You are soooooo right Yoda! I was in a situation where if I didn't know what to do when someone was in my guard *shiver* I don't want to think about it. Full credit to my old instructor though. He was the one who pushed me to do grappling and he was right! When a guy gets you in that position it is all too easy to panic and think it is all over and just be concerned with hoping he won't kill you instead of just raping you. I feel you should know enough that you have a fighting chance at avoiding both. Nothing should be a foregone conclusion.

 

I know of a girl who had that happen - he was "in her guard." She swept him, took his back and choked him unconscious - she held it so long that when she came back with the Police 30min later he was still out! Luckily he was OK and got sent down

 

Yoda, your story makes me just want to say

THANKS!!!!!!!

to my old instructor. I don't think we say it enough.

 

Yes.. my karate instructor teaches us a bit of grappling, but he doesn't claim to be an expert, and often a judo instructor come in and we work on combining the techniques of karate and judo.. I want to get a better knowlage in grappling though, still don't know what art to go for, and yes, a lot of brawls I see end up in a GnP situation

 

I don't ask my BJJ instructor to teach me how to punch (I do, but he has decent stand up as well...), why would you ask your karate instructor to teach you how to grapple? The grappling I've seen them teach is nothing short of woeful and would not work against a resisting opponent. I saw a karate class teaching a counter to the shoot by jumping their feet back half a metre and pushing their hands on the guy's shoulder.

We also had a chick come in to our class to learn self defense, but she didn't want to wrestle... she just wanted to learn how to kick and punch. She never came back 'cause we did too much wrestling which I assume would not have helped her in her quest to better be able to defend herself.

Sweet, I most likely would go to the ground depending on the circumstances. If it's a one on one fight, I'd be happy to go to the ground. I'll probably be using knee ride on their sternum though if I can to get back on my feet quickly. Why? Because I know I can finish a fight quickly on the ground, my grappling skills are better than my stand up.

 

It would make sense to train in all ranges up to and including groundfighting but these are the 3 that stick out when I think about hitting the "pavement":

1. Weapons (they have 'em not me)
2. Multiple attackers
3. The condition of the surface, obstacles, furniture, etc. (With my luck I would end up teeth vs curb!)

Good topic!

Cheers-
james

 

LoL

I too have seen that defence.

Depending on the situation I think it can be a good idea...

Lot less chance of taking a lucky haymaker...

Weapons? I think a untrained guy would have a much harder time digging a weapon out if you had him tied up....

Glove up, get one guy to stick a knife in his pocket and do some experimenting. Good excuse to beat up on the new guys

 

Why does everyone think that grappling = groundfighting????

It doesn't, its a part of it yes but not everything. Its like saying striking = high kicks!!!!!

Col