Grappling Techniques

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Cougar_v203, Mar 12, 2003.

  1. Cougar_v203

    Cougar_v203 4th surgery....Complete!

    Are There Any Good Grapple Techs. that would work for sparring and street fights? if there are plz list them.
  2. Mr Heel Hook

    Mr Heel Hook New Member

    I'll sum it up: Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
  3. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    <g> While I've got nothing but respect for GJJ and BJJ, they're not the only grappling/groundfighting arts.

    Others that I'd recommend would be Erik Paulson's Combat Submission Wrestling -

    And Harimau Silat

    But, also, the guy asked about "grappling" which isn't necessarily "groundfighting." All of the above (to the best of my knowledge) focus primarily on groundfighting though may also have standup grappling aspects, too.

  4. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    I'd say armbars have a high percentage rate. Personally, I like finger locks but they take some training to be able to find them. I'll take toe locks, too, if the guy's barefoot.

    But I'd say that armbars (of all varieties) are probably some of the most commonly found grappling techniques in any situation.

  5. Darzeka

    Darzeka New Member

    In short - grab hold of them, trip or throw them (try to slam them into the ground), then twist something so that it hurts then breaks.

    One thing - arm bars are a good way to get punched (face and chets both hurt).

    For stand up - learn your own body mechanics and look for ways to move your opponent around. Specific techniques - calf/knee hook, all body drops/wheel drops, leg lift (gracie type takedowns where you control you body weight better also performed from closer range). And most locknig ideas can be done from standing.
    Also try to stay standing/kneeling after whatever you have done, keeping a grip on them. This will allow you much more control later.

    On ground - learn to move around and move your opponent. Find things that hurt on your body (generally it will hurt them too). Specific techniques - shoulder key hole locks, wrist key hole locks, ankle locks, fingers and toes. Try to avoid chokes/strangles in a real fight (they are illegal - intent to kill) but they work well.
    Don't forget to strike. Armbars aren't that great on the street - they won't tap and you'll need to snap his elbow.
    Go for a nice tight control hold where you can calm them down or immobilsize them.

    Also Gracie JuJitsu appears (I can only go from what I've seen in UFC) very defensive and lacking in imagination. The lack of cohesive striking can make the takedowns harder to pull off smoothly.
  6. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    Can you elaborate on this?

    Absolutely. "When In Doubt, Impact." (a saying my primary instructor has that I coopted for my school's motto)

    2 things about this statement. In the street, I'm not going for the submission to begin with, and won't expect or acknowledge a tap. I'm either going to hyperexted/break his elbow or slam him into the ground with the armbar. I find armbars about the easiest technique to get hold of at speed and they set up a plethora of follow up options.

    Even if I'm looking to restrain them, an armbar is a good starting point. If they hit the ground, I can step over the arm, maintain the armbar with my legs (or turn it into another lock) while leaving my hands free to deal with other attacks or to further restrain the person.

    If they don't hit the ground from the arm bar then I can use it to keep them off balance and I can easily flow with any resistance to other locks (the figure 4 is a common one).

    Personally, I'll end up with finger locks 9 times out of 10 and I'll use them in conjunction with everything else.

  7. Cougar_v203

    Cougar_v203 4th surgery....Complete!

    well whats the easiest to execute? and what moves are easy enough to knock out or immobilize the opponent?
  8. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    I don't think there's a global answer for this. What's easiest to execute will depend on you, your physical/mental makeup, your background/training/experience, and who you're trying to execute it on.

  9. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    An easy one I like for when you get close to an opponent;

    Move into the side of an opponent (you could be ducking under a punch) slide your leg behind theres (behind just one leg should do) Then instead of grabbing and going for the standard Judo style throw; use your forearm to smash into their face/neck/upper body, and this should be enough to put em down and in a slightly dazed state from the strike for an easy follow up! :)
  10. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    The smaller the joint, the easier it is to hurt ;)

    I've never used finger locks to great success, I know they can be effective, but probably messier to get the lock on. Have you got a good example :confused: :)

    Mainly I stick to the elbow because its easy to manipulate into arm bar/figure 4. Then the wrist second. Only times I've gone for a finger lock is after a grab..........
  11. Darzeka

    Darzeka New Member

    Sorry Pesilat I just pictured armbar as a ground grappling move where you are vulnerable to attack as you apply it.

    Silly me assuming everyone else flows into the mould.

    I feel the basic armbar (brace their wrist with your hand or on your shoulder then apply pressure to elbow) is difficult to get but other variations can allow for more control and garuantee of succes. Can remember getting my brother airborne with a couple - just use movement and momemtum when going into the lock.
    I like using an armbar-ish move to get them onto or going toward the floor and winding it up into a shoulder lock/chicken wing.

    I also like using a twisted wrist pressure move to good effect. Its very easy to do and you can do it from anywhere.
    Step 1. grab opponents wrist.
    Step 2. twist it with force.
    This can be done from a range of positions and will generally flip the person onto the floor and with use of good positioning and use of takedowns/trips can be quite harmful to the other person.

    Finger locks are good to get someone's hand off you and will work on nearly everyone - be careful though they will usually have another hand and two feet to beat you with so lead into another technique.

    Never assume what you are doing will work, hope it will and prepare to move to another lock.

    Excuse my closed mind and help enlighten me by showing what I should have seen.
  12. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    Yup. And if you use your hips to drive the forearm, and follow through, you should end up driving them back and to the side, continue turning as you drag your leg backward through theirs and you've got what we call a "Biset Luar" in Silat. It's a very nice throw :)

  13. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    Well, one that I caught the other day in sparring: I punched with my right hand. The guy parried it toward my left, but his hand was stiff so his fingers were sticking straight up in the air over my right arm. I brought my left hand up, caught the fingers and lifted his hand up to clear the line for my right, I hit him in the ribs with my right forearm while torquing his fingers back toward him and drawing the bottom of his palm into my chest (the palm against the chest gives me a good base to really apply the finger lock).

    This is where finger locks are most commonly gotten. After contact is made, maybe you've got a lock or are going for a lock and, in their effort to resist/counter, they hand you their finger(s).

    Another place they can pretty easily be gotten (with a little timing) is if a guy goes to shove you. He'll usually hold his hands in such a way that he's begging you to grab his fingers.

  14. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    Shame on you :D

    To me, the term armbar implies a whole world of possible techniques, both standing and on the ground.


    I like this one, too. Though I usually apply the shoulder lock/chicken wing with my leg (as I vaguely described in a previous post).

    Yup. And with a little attention paid to the lines you use, this can be devastating (and requires a lot less force in the twist).

    Always the case :) But, for me, it's been ingrained into me that when I do a lock, I automatically do balance disruption as well. The balance disruption often inhibits their ability to kick or to generate much power with their other hand. But I always lead into another technique. I never rely on anything to work.

    In a fight, there are no guarantees. It's the physical embodiment of pure chaos. Even something as simple as a right cross can fail. I may miss. Or, on occasion, the guy may grunt and shrug off my hardest shot. Always continue the flow until you're sure that they're no longer a threat.

    LOL. We all get sidetracked on occasion. I think there are plenty of people around here who can, and will, give you a courteous nudge when you stray :) I know I need one on occasion.

  15. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Good examples Mike, thats given me a few things to think about and try out :)
  16. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    Good. Glad I could help :)

  17. Solane

    Solane New Member


    I would add that you always need to hit the opponent first be it a punch, kick or slap. It helps distract the opponent from what you are trying to do with the grapple generally before they can react. Then it’s to late.

    I say this as if you try to grapple first the opponent will stiffen up and try and pull free or hit you. Where as if they are reeling from a hit their arm/wrist/hand will be more relaxed allowing the technique to be applied easier and with out having to use brut strength against them.

    I will try and give some proper Ninjutsu technique names when I get home.

  18. Cougar_v203

    Cougar_v203 4th surgery....Complete!

    thank you :)
  19. Darzeka

    Darzeka New Member

    Or you can incorporate the strike into the grapple move. Punch your desired locking target then grab. This is a very simple example of it that can work but after playing with it you can see better targets than others.

    Also the person stiffening up will aid you in going from one lock to another or to a throw. As they tense something to prevent your lock they forget about everything else so use that as the distraction from your real target.

    Applying some locks quickly will produce a strike in them.
    Imagine a lunge strike coming at you. Butterfly catch the hand so that you will be on their backside. As you catch the hand slam your elbow into theirs. You will then have a lock, their momentum going past you and alot of control on them.

    That lock is a very contrived situation but the theory is a good one and useful against knife wielding oppnents.

    A good way to find locks is to just tangle up your arms in theirs and squeeze and twist. This also leads into those striking locks.
  20. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    This is a good point, but not entirely true.

    I have in the past used grappling moves to avoid striking. If I was to hit first, why not just follow up with a few more hits to finish them off.

    Sometimes putting a distractor (hit) in first will help, sometimes it will cause them to fight back harder. Although some drills we do include strike/lock/take down/strike etc. But I wouldn't say always strike....

    What you can't do is reach for their arm, then start manipulating it and expect them not to resist.

    You've got to be an opportunist with locks. They push you, put the arm into an arm lock. If they resist too much, don't struggle. They're probably just giving you a better opportunity for a wrist/finger lock.

    If not, then smack em :woo:

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