Grading:Compulsory?

Ok, a question for those with a belt system, students and instructors.
For instructors: How would you react to a student who wishes to study your art but not to grade at all. Or those who wish to stay at the level they are at, and not use the syllabus as their entire learning? (Assuming this is possible)
For students: Do you feel your gradings are compulsory? Expected? Are you free to do as you wish, and is there anyone out there who doesn't care, hasn't chosen to test for yet another belt?

 

As an instructor, I have to say I'm fine with a student who doesn't want to grade. However (and I have had one or two before), I usually make sure to tell them that they're really not going to advance as much if they don't. This may sound harsh, but I'm not going to go out of my way to teach them advanced techniques, if they won't go out of their way to prove to me they've got the basics (which is all I feel gradings are really about - being able to demostrate a level of profficiency under pressure). But that said, I have no problem with them picking up what they can while in class.

As a student, I've always looked at gradings as a way to test myself more than anything. I get really nervous at them, and I figure if I can perform/demonstrate well in a circumstance I come close to panicking in, and remember what I need to remember, and be well-spoken.. well then, I'm doing pretty good.

 

for us, you don't know you're even being tested until about ten minutes before the end of class, when you start to figure out what's been going on all night...

heck, we had what amounted to testing last night. no real reason. i guess my instructor wanted to open the eyes of the whitebelts a bit by pushing the upper belts hard. none of us are anywhere near in need of another promotion, so there weren't any. made for a really fun class, as usual.

as we don't have specific grading dates, it'd be pretty much impossible to duck testing. if someone didn't want to be promoted, ever, i expect they'd be told that lower belt rankings aren't for their benefit, but rather the instructor's.

 

My son doesn't bother grading in judo or thai boxing (Yes I know). Nobody seems to mind.

 

If I were an instructor that does TMA I'd insist students do gradings. I bet you can rake loads in getting students to do gradings plus (as whatserface says) it's progressing in that art isn't it.

MMA is different as you only know how you progress by the amount of fights you have or how you do against other people in the class. As a student I prefer it this way.

 

Cait whats your fight record may I ask?

I take Thai Boxing and occasionally Sub wrestling. I was asked to grade at one thai boxing school and purely on the basis of that I declined to join.

 

I'm not entirely sure if that's sarcasm, but nontheless you have picked up on an important point. Whilst to some instructors, the revenue from a grading might be vital to keeping the club open, and to others, not imprtant at all, there are a lot of instructors out there who will insist on grading just for the financial element. This isn't a bad thing if the general survival of the club is dependant on that revenue, but this shouldn't oversadow student learning.

I personaly would never insist on a student taking a grading, nor would i exclude teaching him the advanced techniques just because he does not own the belt. This is governing learning by the belt, and not by individual skill.

Em

 

Ive recently just started a new style of karate (Bujinkai), after 10 years of shotokan, i dont intend to waste money grading all the way back up to BB again. I dont feel that i need another series of belts to tell me how good i am.

 

I think I need to clarify what I was trying to say...

I'm not going to avoid teaching advanced techniques in class, regardless of my student's ranks, or whether they test. But I do feel that testing is an important part of traditional arts however it is handled (blind testing, formal grading, whatever).

We use ranks to know what a student has gained proficiency in (not mastery, I'm of the opinion that you never truly master anything!). I don't think it's fair to other students to spend a huge amount of time teaching a whitebelt advanced techniques that they had to earn. So while I may teach it in class, I'm not going to spend the same amount of time grilling a non-testing student on techniques way above their rank, than I will with one who has gone through the steps to earn it.

I don't do a lot of tourneys, though I try to do 1 a year. I see them as more of a learning experience than anything else, especially since I do WTF style. And there's really not much competition, as there's not many 30-yr old female blackbelts that compete. I think the most I ever had in my bracket was 4. So I don't really get much out of it.

 

Recently I seem to have taken up an attitude of not caring about rank. After, what's in a color? At my Shorin Ryu school, underbelt ranking awarded as Sensei deems fit. No testing fees, no advanced notice, just come in one class, after bowing in, Sensei calls you up to the front and hands you the belt (and certificate). He once said to a student that asked about testing - "Practice is what you do when you go home. Every time you walk through the dojo door you are testing."

 

Grading makes no sense in my training. It's a REAAL small dojo...me and the instructor at this point. As for 'testing', I'm told our system is more 'traditional Okinawan'...in that one 'tests' basically every class.

 

Gradings are cool for awhile, but I sort of got bored of them...

I'm doing Judo and Muay Thai now, and haven't done any gradings. I don't really see the point in Judo specifically, I learn the same stuff as everyone else anyway.

 

Exactly my point, Nii. If you're doing the same as everyone else, and the only difference you see is in experience, you're still learning how to do things better.
I've written an article in the new section to try and get what I feel across, let me know what you think.

 

From a business point of view they're a good hook. I don't know how many times I've heard parents say that their child can't quit because they are so close to blackbelt, as if it's some sort of superpower, or the only goal in martial arts.

 

Hi, Rhea:

Good question. Just to understand how you are framing your question......

What do you think the role of accountability should be in MA? What I mean by asking this is that I need to know how you view the nature of being accountable to one's community in being able to do what one's rank says you can do. The reason I ask this is that not everyone who talks about rank seems to view this or that grade through the same eyes. Some see being awarded a rank as a recognition of an individual's personal struggle against some physical or mental handicap. OTOH, some people very being awared a rank as recognition of some level of performance, say in competition or in testing. Yet others see rank as simply recognizing the duration of commitment to training over a number of months or years. Can you help me understand how you are framing the idea of acquiring rank? Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

First, not that I'm in any way advocating 12 year old black belts, but I do understand helping kids complete things. While there isn't much to be gained forcing kids to do things for which they've long since lost enthusiasm, encouraging kids to finish what they've started is a good life lesson. This isn't a martial arts specific thing, but as I said, I can see why a parent would want for their child to get a black belt if they're close.

Regarding gradings, I like how BJJ does it. Recognition of skill, period. No gradings, no belt tests and more importantly, no testing fees. There's nothing in it for the instructor or the student beyond recognizing skill.

At my old school, we tested every three months and I was extremely uncomfortable with the entire process. Eventually, this was one of several things that prompted me to go out looking for a school that better fit me. On the other hand, I never refused to test while I was there and would consider it very rude. What I mean is, if you go to a school that DOES testing and willfully choose not to, I think that's a little rude and arrogant.

It's right up there with the guys who come to the BJJ gi class and bitch about how no-gi is more realistic. Whether there's merit to the argument or not, we're wearing a gi now because this is a gi class, and if you don't like it you can train at a different school. Same for grading, IMO. If you're refusing to test even though you are proficient to do so, you're bringing your own baggage into the school for no good reason.

 

Hmm, ok, I understand what you are getting at.
I'm meaning generally really. When it's considered just "the done thing." I guess I'm not referring just to MA in a way.

Steve, I can understand what you're getting at too. I like the way BJJ does its gradings too. With us, it's you have the skills of a blue, you fight like one, you get it.
I'm in a club which falls into 3 sections. Syllabus, which comes from classical ju jitsu and our system's weapons and general techniques; Self Defence and other, which doesn't usually fall in the testings, or expands upon it, and various forms of sparring to pressure test against an attacker.
Seeing as you can learn the stuff independently of the belt system, I've never felt pressured into grading.
But to be honest, it was more a general thing, something I was pondering. I wasn't speaking of me personally, it's just a situation I've never come across

 

A grading is simply a means of confirming that you can do a set of techniques to a required standard, and that you are ready to move on to something more.
If you don't want to grade (ie. show you are advancing), then you won't advance.
I don't particularly agree with the people who have a mission to bet BB in 3 years, or a checklist for life to tick off as they go along.
I've always viewed the gradings as part of a natural progression, and as a mark of achievement.
They also give the instructor an easy recognition way of knowing what to expect of you.
We recently had one of my boys schoolfriends who had done a couple of belts in another style and thought he knew it all, and wanted to walk straight into our advanced class (5th Kyu and above). he chose to come along with his mum when I happened to be running the class, and I had to say that he couldn't join the advanced one. He hasn't come back.

 

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

I would think to a certain extent that it shows respect to a certain club if you follow what they do. I don't mean to get all old fashioned, but it's a sign of loyalty. And if they are charging really high prices for gradings, they are likely to be charging high fees for training too and then, at least on paper, you may start to question the school.

Personally, a bad class for me is any class where I don't learn something or improve on something. And that happens only about once a year. I admit that I like my belts, it's a sign for me that although I know I am improving and learning, someone else recognises that as well.

 

So if you train for twenty years and not grade you don't get any better?