Good martial art for teenage girl?

I still have yet to understand what a competition mindset is outside of a competition. If your telling me a young girl in the process of being attacked is going to think that it is the same a fighting in the ring then I think you are mistaken.

Most 13 year olds already have a self defence mindset, it's the tools to defend themselve that they need from martial arts

 

You may encounter out of shape thugs, or you might encounter very practiced, very evil people who wouldn't think twice about hurting you in ways that would never happen in a competition. If you physically train for competition and also train for self defense, then you are in good shape. I'm not sure that is the case.

How many Boxing schools concentrate on self-defense techniques? I suspect they concentrate on boxing an opponent, which undoubtedly has crossover benefits, but it isn't the same thing.

Have you ever heard of someone highly trained in martial arts just not responding to defend themselves when attacked? There was a post about this here some time back. It isn't JUST about physical skills, or how many times you've been punched.

Predators have the advantage of working outside of acceptable norms. Average folks people aren't trained to respond to sudden, often excessive violence, and due to this (and other factors too) they are prone to freezing up. A competition fighter might fare better being punched in the face...in the context of the environment they are accustomed to.

Simply, I believe there is more to self-defense than physical skills. This is not attempting to discount physical skills in any way.

BudoStudent

 

muay thai, full contact kickboxing or boxing mixed with either BJJ or judo. MMA even (need a seriously hardcore girl for that, lots of brothers)

I don't see why women need to train any differently than men - effectively!

 

I disagree. I think that the most likely thing to happen is for someone to freeze up. I think you aren't going to think about much of anything--you are simply going to react.

I strongly disagree with your second paragraph--that a 13 year old has a self-defense mindset. I would say the vast majority of the population has no real concept of self defense at all, and would likely freeze up, or tremble in fear, or roll into a ball. In my opinion we are conditioned to not fight back--to let the police handle it. That's why people stand by while young girls are beaten half to death (literally that happened locally), and why knife wielding maniacs can stab, behead and eat their neighbor on a bus while people flee (also recently happened--check the news).

I believe that most people (even trained martial artists) just have no concept of how incredibily vicious and sudden attacks can be, and I include myself in this group. Thing is--even self defense oriented martial arts probably aren't enough (excepting perhaps Krav Maga). It is hard to say.

BudoStudent

 

I do, believe me I know how vicious these attacks can be. I know how evil people can be. I know how sudden these things can happen.
I'm not proud of why and how I know but this is why my son trains and has trained for much of his life in the most effective arts to deal with these sorts of situations. In case he ever meets someone like I was. He's one of the toughest 14 year olds you're ever likely to meet, have I done enough? I don't know, other than encouraging him to break the law (....and that's not going to happen) I've done the best I can, with sport not pretend.

 

To go back to the original post (and assuming we're talking about doing a martial art for sport here, not for self-defense):
I would much rather my daughter or son do a stand-up martial art such as boxing/muay thai/karate... etc than a grappling art, even at the risk of getting punched in the face...

Now, don't get me wrong, arts like judo or bjj are fantastic martial arts -especially in the way they cross over to self-defense- but the injury rate is horrendous... I've been kept out of training so often, over the years, by judo injuries, that I would actually hesitate to recommend it despite all the benefits that can be derived from it.
I now do boxing and muay thai (after some karate), and it doesn't compare: some bruises, and the (very) occasional black eye, but no more cracked or broken ribs for me, no more broken fingers, and sprained joints... People have this opinion boxing is a violent sport, and that judo is 'the gentle way'. I'm not sure they've actually tried!!!

So, a stand-up art gets my vote, and for the aesthetics of it, I would also consider advising your daughter to do kung fu or capoiera...

Now, if she wants to train solely for self-defense, well... I wouldn't want to turn anyone away from martial arts, so something like krav maga comes to mind... but self defense for a 13 y/o girl is not going to amount to much in the short term...

I see a lot of talk from martial artists, but who has never doubted that, if faced with an opponent who is bigger and stronger, all their training might well come to nowt? I know I have...
I've seen adrenaline make guys absorb solid punches, and once you have to wrestle with them... the rules of sport don't apply. And I'm not sure how effectively I can apply my armbars when someone is biting a chunk out of my leg, or ripping off my ears...
Fitness, technique, agility... none of it comes to much when faced with a brawler's viciousness and (usually) experience.
If your self-defense instructor doesn't advise you to run, if they don't teach you awareness and avoidance, they're not worth the bother.

The local police run self defense classes for women where I live, and you know what... they don't actually teach any techniques... it is all avoidance based (and for a very good reason in my opinion!).

Ask your daughter which art appeals to her most, send her to a couple of classes, let her choose: she's much more likely to stick with it, and get more than delusions out of the sport. And eventually -even if she never gets good enough to cope with a stronger aggressor- at least she might be able to make an assessment and realise that she is outmatched, and that it is time to escape at all costs.

 

O'rly MD?

Where is the gym? Sounds like it would be worth a visit.

 

QFT. I'm male and I weigh 9 stone, 55 kg, and I think it's 120 something pounds?

 

I think a good counter arguement for self defence is usually what my instructor said to me.

"You're trying to do as much damage to them before they can to you" so while some Martial Arts say wait for the movement (and that is in some cases the best thing to do) I think a suprise attack by moving first and hitting out as hard as you can will also deter them.

Remember, most attackers don't think you'll hit back, (well I find they don't).

 

I'm not denouncing anything--I'm stating what often happens. Most people don't know what to do if they see someone being attacked. Most of us aren't accustomed to that sort of violence, and our natural reaction is to protect ourselves. Beyond this, I think we are conditioned to not be proactive in situations like this. That is the right choice if you aren't properly trained, because otherwise you will likely be hurt or killed. Even trained Martial artists have a good chance of being harmed.

First--I don't think anyone knows how they will really react, but I HOPE that I (and you and everyone else) would do what they can to protect their own family. It would be horrible if our social conditioning led us to NOT help at least our own family. Legal repercussions...right another big thread, but I'll say this--any law that stands in the way of someone helping a victim against an attacker (Helps the attacker in his victimizing) is immoral.

Well, certainly people have physical abilities that can be used in offense or defense--trained or not. But, that's part of my point--the physical skills aren't all there is. People do freeze up, and do stand by while others are beaten and killed. The good news is that some people don't and they do step in and help. That is what I think we all should work towards being.

BudoStudent

 

Ok, I believe you. That doesn't mean that is common. I hope your 14 year old is ready and able to defend himself against an attacker, and has the moral sense to use them wisely.

Sport not pretend? Sport is pretend...rather another limited simulation. I'm not an enemy of sport, nor do I deny it's value. That doesn't mean it is real. The argument often becomes--"well, it is more real than your Dojo" and perhaps that's true. However, that's like comparing a stone and a pebble, and then realizing that you are facing a boulder.

BudoStudent

 

I think it's as much mental training as it is physical training.

If you train yourself mentally, and physically, you should be able to handle most things.

I'm not advocating fighting in anyway, but sometimes you have to put someone down before they get a chance to put you down.

 

This is really missing the point. The EXAMPLE of a 100lb teenage girl (which is perfectly reasonable) vs a larger attacker is an illustration. The larger point is that you cannot count on equal sized and strength opponents. The average woman does not have the upper body strength of your average man, and attackers are much more likely to be men. The conclusion...there's a very good chance that someone who attacks a teenage girl is going to be bigger and stronger.

BudoStudent

 

I want to hear more about the people who've been trainning in martial arts like Judo for 14 years ane never come across women that can submit aggressive men in class, because that doesn't sound very much like any judo class I've been too.

 

although it is a valid point that women are often attacked by larger and stronger males, i think that it is more likely that she will be attacked by another girl or a group/gang of girls. In england at least this is the norm. go to any town centre in england and you will most likely see girls in large hoop earings and in bad sports clothing punching/kicking/glassing each other or other females in the vicinity.

i think the myth of the innocent defenceless female has to go. true, women are often attacked by violent men either by physically attacking, mentally intimidating them or sexually attacking. But i think odds are it will be more likely to be another or a group of, young teenage girls.

I beleive the only way to learn how to deal with this is by benefit of combat sports. now you can enrol them on RBSD courses, BUT this course would have to be physically intense or else fitness training would have to be done sepereatly, it would have to involve live combat by means of decent contact sparring and it would have to involve good solid drills on focus mitts and bags to build up the strength and technique. Although some RBSD courses offer this, they are few and far between.

BY all means it is sensible to send them on to the police courses, but take in the lessons on a awarness and avoidance level, i would avoid all physcial training given by those who havent fought or been around those who have as they may not have the know how.

As i stated before in both boxing and judo a girl would be fighting men and women, hard physcial work with great fitness benefits,i think catering to just combating sexually natured male attacks is an oversight of the reality of girl vilence one can see and read about in any major town centre.

This is again all assumption from a self defence point of view, if she wants to chill out, get a little fitter and meet nice new friends, any old art will do, but i recomend training with fighters if you want to stand a chance in a potential conflict as it prerpares one physcially and mentally better than most other options.

i know if i had a daughter, id rather her know how to land a cracking left hook or a speedy o-soto gari than anything else, the street smarts from self defence courses help, but sometimes your just to drunk/happy/un aware/ to be able to benefit from them and some people just dont have that common sense to avoid them without regular training of it, which is both tedious and leads a little to excessive paranoia.

 

Absolutely. Mindset along with physical skills. Both are important. That's the big question however. I am not at all confident that sport-based training is at all geared towards a proper mindset for self defense. Unfortunately, I'd guess that most other martial arts are not either.

BudoStudent

 

What is a "Sport mindset", Why is it bad? Why is it any more pervasive than the typical mindset you see in MA clubs or any worse?

 

You can't really pass a 'self defence' mindset on or teach it in my view. You may be able to stress
certain things and encourage, give pointers etc. The rest of it lays at the door of the individual to take up or not. Some just have it i think..

the mindset of trying to "beat up" the other guy while he tries it on you is a pretty good start though..