GM In Sun Seo Video

Umm, no, I won't stop educating people that real Hapkido IS not Kuk Sool Won - this art is definable and still very much there from the people that trained with Choi Dojunim - and stayed with him long enough to receive rank that reasonably allows them to call what they teach Hapkido. Not Kuk Sool Won - and I will repeat, I have no issue at all with Kuk Sool Won, I will agree that it is a seperate and different martial art than Hapkido.

Can you contribute without being personally insulting? Well, maybe not.

ps I think the word you needed there was "lose" - maybe some proof reading?

 

look my friends and I were discussing GM Seo's video's and you chime in "this is not hapkido" now you want to cry when I finally get tired of reading your neg. comments about my art and my Grand Master? That is personal. If you stir the pot you have to deal with the stink. This thread was on the up beat 'til you waded in fat guy.

 

GM Seo

QUOTE:
Hello all,

Loose is just that, the attacks were from an individual leaning in from a horse stance (the grabs) - and the resulting defenses were all done very far from the body the end of arms reach - there seemed to be little contact that would result in the throws demonstrated.
__________________
Sincerely,

Kevin Sogor UNQUOTE!

Mr. Sogor,
I have seen GM Seo's up close and personal approach to Hapkido, in person. He is one (if not the) greatest at what he does. His techniques are clean and simple and work.
Now, I have only been in training for a short time (since 1963) and I realize that you have had great teachers, but do not come down on GM Seo here. I suggest that you attend one of his seminars and judge for yourself "in person," as to if his techniques are 'loose.' The next Seo seminar will be in Orlando, FL the beginning of October.
Or if you can't wait that long, then come to one of mine, which will be on May 19th in Conway, SC.

George Petrotta
ISA International Director
8th Dan Hapkido (WKF/HMJ)
www.sungjado.org
ISA Hdq.

 

I know we've covered a few of these bases before, but I would like to add something.

The video clip, in my opinion, is not really a demonstration of GM In Sun Seo doing a full speed application of HKD. I think (judging from the closer camera that can be seen) that he was doing some demonstrations for some sort of project (maybe a tv show or something). It seems like he's doing things pretty easily and in a relaxed manner and it looks like they are running through some stuff looking for highlights. That's my impression though.

The reason I I get that impression is based on the time I've been on the mat with him (2 day seminar in Montreal) where I was fortunate to see him teach "slow speed", demonstrate things slow speed and apply things in a faster way. In my experience, he feels really soft right up to the moment he "slaps" it on you... then it's immediate and immobilizing (Having watched videos of GM Lim Hyun-soo, I bet you know exactly what I mean in very clear terms!). I have also seen a older video from a seminar (Florida 1999) which is very much like the Montreal experience. Based on that I think the video clip is nice, but not really an accurate portrayal of what GM In Sun Seo is like on the floor for a student or particiapnt (as opponesed to a demo spectator).

As for the Kuk Sool and Hapkido mix, that's a different topic. In short GM In Sun Seo's background of being a chief KSW instructor for years flavors what he does. At seminars, there are some neat hyung, weapons, drills, and so on... most likely from KSW. However, I don't think the core system is too different, looking at the core KSW empty hand material and the core HKD material, there are a lot that is the same, even if some of the expression is different. If Hapkido is an art composed from DRAJJ and mixed with some Korean Traditions (Kook Sool) then KSW is just a larger blend of HKD and other Kook Sool (native traditions) to encompas a wider range. It doesn't make the core system different though, at least not in philosophy and core techniques.

As someone who trained in IHF HKD, ICHF HKD (and with exposure to some others), I personally (opinion) found GM In Sun Seo to be very much "Hapkido" in essence. Some of the outside expression differed but not significiantly from the other sources I've learned. On the plus side, he had some "extra" stuff to share from his KSW roots.

Anyway, that's my take!

 

Best I can tell the video is from a demonstration in a tournament exhibition in 10/7/2001. There used to be another video of the whole master's exhibition before the hapkido.re.kr site went down. This looks like the same demo but from a different camera.

 

Not trying to throw some extra gas on the fire, but ...

I have never met GM Seo, never trained with him, hardly have any idea about who he is and what he does.
If all I had was the video in this discussion, I would agree with Iron_ox. His techniques look loose (maybe sloppy is a term used more often) to me as well.
If I was teaching a seminar and somebody would do the techniques as presented by GM Seo in this particular video, I would walk up to him and give him a few hints.

But again, I come from a very different lineage and only have 20 years of experience or so. Just ignore what I said

 

Oh, I get it...sarcasim! By saying you "only" have 20 years or so experience!

Maybe it's a good idea to put in perspective to remember that the person being critizied has a few more years experience than just 20. I've got videos of GM Seo more than 25 years ago doing jump spin kicks and breaking boards with fans.

(Certainly not using Hapkido, of course.)

I'm hoping the writer of the previous post was being equally sarcastic when he wrote that he'd correct GM Seo's technique. This reminds me of a certain legislative leader who saw a video of a woman in Florida and made the statement that she wasn't hopeless, when all the attending doctors (who actually examined her) said she was.

Sarcasim...let me try that. How about....South Korea isn't that big a country, and, perhaps, there could be an opportunity for the writer to travel to Pusan to meet GM Seo and help him improve his technique. I'm sure he'd appreciate it...

Sorry, I just don't understand why every forum I see winds up being a "My master can beat your master" argument. It's worse than who'd win, Superman, or Bruce Lee? (When everyone knows it'd be Chuck Norris...) lol

Steve Kincade

 

I was not trying to be sarcastic.
All I wanted to say was that you can't judge a person by just looking at one video tape.

Thomas later clarifies the circumstances a bit. Which should make clear that you shouldn't judge the techniques of GM Seo only by watching this tape.
But than again, why put it out there?

I didn't see myself starting a 'my teacher is better than yours'-argument. (although I am sure he is *just kidding*)

 

I've been posting for a while about not being able to find TKMA in Maine, except for the Jungki Hapkido club in Yarmouth,Maine which is more than an hour away. The reason that I didn't pursue it was because they only train once a week, and I was blown off by the instructor because I had planned to come and check it out, but medical issues prevented that, and the instructor blew off any other correspondence. Now after reading your constant "this isn't hapkido" rantings, I'm sort of happy that I didn't go ahead and get what I could out of once a week classes. I don't want to be the type of martial artist that wants everyone to think that my style is the only pure style....that's crap, and I hope you don't try to poison your students with that. You sound like GM Hyun Soo Lim was the only student that Dojumin Choi ever had. Stop being so "mine is the best" and respect these practitioners for who and what they are. I realize that you've got 30 years under your belt, and I award you the respect you are due because of your rank, but do you really think that you are better educated in what is hapkido than GM Seo? Who made you the Hapkido hall monitor?

P.S.
I'm very sorry to hear about your family member being ill, I wish you and yours the best.

 

seo' skill is not reflected well on that vid for whatever reason. He has few peers whn it comes to ma skill, just like his brothers IHS and IJS.

Seo is a ks guy who is now calling it hkd as it suit his need's . so what? half of the "hkd" guys in the U.S. do the same thing to avoid the WKSA trademark issue or having to pay IHS, or both, but they still dress up and train using ksw skills/hyungs etc. they usually call it hkd bc the name is reasonably recognizable and available for use and its the next closest thing.
(Personally think the two arts are only partially related in terms of modern content. Maybe about 50%...which , imnsho makes them 1st cousins at most. but distinct.)
big deal everyone does what they want

I acknowledge his skill and history, but I don't think much of seo at all, period. No amount of history or MA skill is going to change that.

I posted a while back that you guys on this forum were always civil in spite of your differences. as a result I really enjoyed this forum. I guess I was wrong.

I don't know or care what anyone looks like. As i have mentioned I know some extremely talented HKD guys. some of you might know Mstrs John Beluschak, Ken Mackenzie these guys are not particularly lean , but thier competence is without question. and they are really nice guys. I didn't think it mattered but if it does i am Height /Weight proportionate if that fact lends me credibility/or not, so be it.

Gotta go ,,, time to practice

 

Dead wrong assessment...

Hello all,

I did not (and do not) mean to personally offend or insult you or anyone else - period - what and how we read things on a page is often quite differnt than the way they read to the writer.

Saying that, I hold strong beliefs for the art I train and teach - and I feel that Hapkido has taken the brunt of a far bit of negative advertising because it is often accepted as a catch-all.

This is a place of lively and interesting DISCUSSION - please feel free to disagree with me on anything - I will try in earnest to defend my position with reason and fact (as best I am able) - but I will never engage in a "better than you" match with anyone - but I think it is relevant to acknowledge rank and standing in a community that is built on that rank. In addition, I believe that there is a certain amount of intellectual honesty (if not outright honesty) that has to be applied to these ranks - and I think that they can be discussed - and even disagreed with.

To appease everyone, I will bow out of any further discussion on Seo.

 

Who made you the Hapkido hall monitor? This comment is beneath you.
You don't even know me to make that judgement.

I meant no offense, and I never said that you stated that "your's was the best" and so on, but it "seems" implied by your tone. I've been studying martial arts on and off for close to 16 years, and I do see many, many similarities between Hapkido, KSW, HWD, JTMS, and most other TKMA. Yes Hapkido is a very generic term in the U.S., just like Karate, and Kung (Gung) Fu. You can't tell me that there are no similarities between Shotokan, Goju Ryu, Shorin Ryu and Isshin Ryu. Be proud that practitioners build off of what Dojunim started. Does DJN Jae Han Ji teach Hapkido? He's made changes from what he was initially taught. Same with GM Bong Soo Han. It's called evolution. You also have to think about how techniques have had to change in order to be effective. Joint locking and throwing a 5'4" 145 lb person is much different than applying it to a 6'5" 250 lb person. You have to make changes here and there to maintain effectiveness. Not saying that DJN Choi, or GM Lim couldn't throw a much larger person, I'm sure that they could. But that wasn't the "norm" in Korea, or Asia in general at the time that the system was developed. I'm sure that you are much better educated in this that I, and I don't claim to have even scratched the surface in my education thus far, but I hate to see systems afraid to evolve because it disturbs the purity of it or "waters it down."

 

Hello,

Thanks for the post, I'll give this all some thought.

 

Well this is definitely a TKMA forum. Everyone is certainly "Acting " korean
Just like my signature says

 

Well they do tell us to "immerse" ourselves in the culture...lol

 

Hi, Klaasb!

Agreed: you can't tell much by tape! I've seen good and bad videos of almost everybody. In fact, there is some stuff of mine that I wish never existed. I would correct ME if I saw me doing some of my techniques on some old videos!

Yes, it is easy for us to become emotionally involved when we think of the art we have invested our time and money in for a long period of time isn't "genuine." I, for one, am of the "Billy Jack" generation. One kick that whopped the bad guy on the face started a chain reaction that I never could have foreseen, and my search for that martial art described in the credits as "Hapkido Karate" began.

One question I have for the forum's readers is, if there is only one Hapkido, then why isn't the name copyrighted? If there is proof that there IS only one, then take it to court! Make everybody pay royalties! (Who wants to be the one to tell GM Ji that he has to pay to use the word "Hapkido" describing his art? lol)

I think many of us here practice a style that we certainly think is Hapkido, and someone coming along, even in a very polite manner, and telling us we are ignorant and he's not, is not going to convert many people, is he?

Especially guys from Texas!

Many of us remember the "make your line longer" story. Let's just get better and share our knowledge and experience. I will if you will!

Steve Kincade

 

Hi.

This I know for sure---Grandmaster Lim, Hyun Soo respects all Hapkido styles and martial arts. As a matter of fact, coincidentally, on my trip to the Jung Ki Kwan in Daegu City last week, he again reiterated that point to me during one of our many discussions. If you have any questions regarding GM Lim's Hapkido style or philosophy, I urge you to contact him directly.

DVYBE--Sorry to hear about your Jung Ki experience in Maine. Master Sheryl Glidden has been away from Maine for the last 10 months. One of her senior students took over the classes in Yarmouth temporarily. I am sure there was some sort of miscommunication or oversight. Also, the HKD classes were reduced to one day per week since Master Glidden was away. The good news is she will be returning in July. If you are still interested, I know she would be happy to speak with you about Jung Ki Hapkido & Kuhapdo (207) 831-1885. If you would like to see Jung Ki Hapkido from GM Lim himself, he will be in Dover, New Hampshire-Sat. Aug. 4th teaching a Jung Ki Hapkido seminar.

Here is the link to the seminars:
http://www.jungkihapkidoamerica.com/limseminar2007.html


Take care.
Mike

 

I understand where you are coming from Steve but at the same time I agree with ironox also. I do think preserving an arts integrity is very important. Especially for those people on the outside looking in who might be interested in martial arts and visit a watered down, or incorrect version of Hapkido, Karate, Judo, and etc. and spread negative connotations to their friends and family. They might believe thats how all martial arts schools are because they have little or no previous experience which makes it harder for the true schools and true martial artist to promote the legitimacy of their art. As far as what's true Hapkido and what's not, thats a never ending argument. When it comes to that answer the road to the truth is so elusive its confusing. For example, think about how many different stories you have heard about the training of the founder of Hapkido GM Choi, and then relate that to most of the Grand Masters out here that we respect and imitate and tell me where there is clarity? I'm not questioning the skill of GM Seo and I respect him just for his time in service in the martial arts. But if he only has a first or third degree in hapkido then it should be noted and he shouldn't be calling himself a ninth or tenth degree black belt in Hapkido period. And going by his own website it looks like thats the case. But don't get me wrong even if his website is correct, I still assume he has the skill and definitely has put in enough time to perform any or most of the techniques of any other Hapkido GMs, including mine. And I'm not saying he doesn't have a ninth or tenth degree black belt in another art, or his own. And as far as why Hapkido isn't copyrighted, that's a good question. Dr. Joo Bang Lee says that is one of GM Ji Han Jae's biggest mistakes and that is why Hwa rang do was copyrighted right away to prevent confusion and etc. I think the way Hwa rang do is set up is good as far as certification, posting of rank, when and where and by who a person was promoted and etc. it really validates and clears up things. It would have been nice if other arts would have followed suit in the beginning so we wouldn't be having this conversation. You should check out there website for this reason, its kind of interesting. But then again Dr. Lee has his own stories and credibility issues, once again the road to the truth is so elusive. Anyway to sum this up, I think we all should welcome facts about our martial art and its Grandmasters, its going to be very hard to stomach at times but as long as we make sure we clarify fact from opinion, and keep an open mind we should be alright. Together we all have over a thousand years of experience so lets take advantage of that and improve our knowledge and skills.

 

If you get the chance: Please take a look at Grand Master Seo's interview that can be found at www.kidohae.com I think it might answer alot of questions and shed some light on his history and experience.

Thanks,
JB Murphy