Gi Equivalent of MMA

Discussion in 'MMA' started by Pretty In Pink, May 20, 2012.

  1. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Didn't Jones break somebodies face with the 12-6 elbow?
     
  2. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    I don't know, and I believe one of the prominent early refs in the UFC saw a demo where someone broke an ice block with a 12-6 and got all flustered. No joke. It's a common story, maybe someone can verify it.
     
  3. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    doesn't all this guard passing nonsense become a mute point when you can rain down fists on the girly man lying down, lol kidding. Yes gi, no gi, wrestling boots, bare foot, shorts, trousers all this changes the dynamic I know but I was saying basically to not count combat sambo as a gi mma style because of the shorts is kind of pedantic.
     
  4. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Absolutely. But that stereotype is there nonetheless and I am as prone to it as anyone else. I like a man in a gi. :)
    A guy covered in tats in some board shorts just doesn't "do" it for me aethetically or in a more abstract "feel" of martial arts either.
    How people look and the aethetics of the arena and surroundings form how an event feels.
    I don't like the way MMA "feels" as much as I like me some tatami, a gi of some sort and the "japanese" aesthetic.

    On an another angle a gi would give sponsors shed loads more space for god-awful logos and graphics.
     
  5. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG0L3lJmfPs"]Боевое Самбо.Combat Sambo. - YouTube[/ame]

    They don't always wear heagear. I've seen some russian promotions where the headgear isn't worn but I do believe it's the standard there. Most of the no-headgear sambo I see is in Ukraine or on one of the M1 promotions, where I'm not even sure if you're normally required to wear a kurtka.
     
  6. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Simple answer. Cuts.
    Watch any of the early Vale Tudo bouts. Headbutts, cuts and blood everywhere.
    Mark Kerr won many of his early fights by takedown, inside guard, headbutt = carnage.
    But aside from the cuts the headbutts didn't do a lot else. Not hard enough to cause concussion so at the end one guy was all bloodied and cut but could otherwise carry on fighting.
    With headbutts we'd get far more stoppages due to cuts and some very unsatisfying fights with no real conclusion.
     
  7. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    me neither but the fightings what's important, putting a gi on them would make it almost a different sport, and yet they would still have the ridiculous haircuts and Id wager the gi wouldn't look so aesthetically pleasing with BUDLIGHT plastered over it.

    don't think putting GSP and anderson silva in gi's would scare off the ed hardy t shirt wearing "JUST BLEED" crowd.

    have you never watched a PRIDE event, hard to think of anything that just feels spiritually more japanese. its not MMA that has the horrible presentation, aesthetics and crowds by and large its the UFC.
     
  8. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    From what i've heard it was a prominent move for capo guys in early vale tudo to stop crappy "royce gracie shoots" so an early UFC ref banned it to prevent it being used on the back of the head during as part of a shoot defence but it caught on as an all-round rule because they weren't sure how to enforce it.

    @chadderz - i understand banning it on the ground, its the equivalent of knees to the head, but i still like pride rules better. Pride rules with headbutts, a gi and wrestling boots. thats what we need.

    *I think headbutts were banned cos of the bleed factor it caused on opponents = shorter rounds under unified rules.
    *also headbutts are considered "brutal" and savage
     
  9. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    No. He got DQ'd for using them on Bader (who already had a dislocated shoulder) but broke Vera's face with an over the top angled job that was legal.
     
  10. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    It's funny cos in Japan they love wrestling more!
    they have the same fascination with catch as the west does with JMA.
     
  11. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Yeah. On the whole Pride urinated over the UFC when it came to presenting an event.
    More spectacle, more respectful audience, Taiko drummers, Yoshida in a gi. :)
     
  12. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    i think its just a cultural thing. the japanese actually see MMA fighters as athletes cos many of them did judo for PE in school or know people who have competed. They're able to recognise techniques and appreciate the athletes abilities. It's why they freak out over catch wrestling. Catch is something that is different from boring old judo to them.
    It's like the inverse of people in the west

    the west has no appreciation for wrestling or boxing unless they were involved in it directly and it isnt as wide spread as MA in japan.
    heck the boxing isnt as clean in MMA and the wrestling is great but most people dont like wrestling in the west cos of unitards + man contact time.
     
  13. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    Just a question but isn't it a consideration that head butts might be used when you are in someone's guard? I had heard that the wrestling crowd had picked up a habit of headbutting the guy on the bottom and that was in some ways as much of a problem as guard slams. I don't remember where i heard this so I could be wrong. Certainly getting head butted when your head couldn't move might lead to some potentially bad injuries. Anyone have any similar information?

    Just wondering..

    LFD
     
  14. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    UFC 10 mark coleman with the headbutt for the KO and win (god he used the head a lot in his early days) wrestlers like coleman and kerr basically nulifilled the guard in the early days of the UFC because they simply head butted guys unconscious, unlike elbows where you have to separate and offer up a submission or escape attempt, they simply went to safely position in the guard and butted people unconscious from very short distance
    As bad as elbows can be head butts have way more force and ability to do serious damage as well as cut badly: Greater bone density, ability to put the whole body behind it, no real fear of injury, not real distance required to make them effective and so on
    And whilst knees can be as bad, they are only allowed on standing opponents where you can absorb and move with the blow to some extend, headbutts were most effective on the ground where your opponents head had nowhere to go,
    SO they were banned for two reasons, the damage caused, but mostly because BJJ was in danger of losing its guard game lol, and you wont see them back for the same reason you wont see knees to the head of a downed opponent, they look way too bad and they can cause so much more damage then elbows or punches
     
  15. liero

    liero Valued Member

    Koshiki?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXWT7-YPM1A"]Koshiki Fighting Highlights. Sensei Paul Jackman 2007 - YouTube[/ame]
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D47XW2B7dSo"]World Koshiki Karate Championships 2007 Cruiser & Heavy wht. - YouTube[/ame]

    Interesting competition but not much (read any) ground fighting after takedowns I think. Watch the stoppages after the person gets position in the second video.


    EDIT
    My bad- should have read the whole thread. I'll leave the video's up anyway
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
  16. Pompeythegreat

    Pompeythegreat Im Very White Aparently

    This is a little something Kuma turned me onto a while ago that kind of fills the niche [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqxwBNrum5c"]what is Kudo? (Daido Juku) - YouTube[/ame]
     
  17. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    coleman and kerr were monsters though so aren't they exceptions not the rule, also id argue if you dont have an answer to someone head butting you then you don't have much of a guard game at all.
     
  18. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    Kudo would have been my first thought too.

    It has legal crotch kicks too, if I remember rightly. :eek:
     
  19. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    afaik they don't, but they do have the space headbutts!
     
  20. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    lol no offense but I love it when people make sweeping statements like its a bit like a white belt saying the guard work of pro fighters sucks because tito used to ground and pound them out from within their guards..... have you ever rolled with headbutts allowed, or competed in MMA with headbutts? Thes guys they were beating people with purple brown belts in BJJ, guys trained in catch etc, the fact is with a wrestlers base, their hip control and positioning, headbutting is probably the best weapon they can have
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2012

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