generating force

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by cloudz, Jun 8, 2015.

  1. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member


    Not an inch punch - from fingertips resting on target he hits with a fist. The distance the hand moves is the length of the fingers up to the knuckle joint as a fist. Depending on the lengths of his fingers its between 2 and three inches.
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
  2. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned Where is power from in this one?
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
  3. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member


    Classic hung gar hip and shoulder movement. - its all the same in the end.
  4. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

  5. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    What about the the distance moved after the punch?
  6. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    I look at it as what starts the movement. It can be a large movement of the large muscles directly attached to the limb bones. this would be your classic external. in this movement the hips move from the get go.

    Or it can begin with a winding up and release of the muscles of the abdomen and, or groin / inner thigh, in which case the movement begins within the muscles of the core which then drives the hips to move. This is your internal.
  7. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    The initial explosion of power is delivered into the punch only a few inches through the target, after this the rest of the movement is a push. the initial hit unbalances and uproots the opponent. The push then helps the opponent to stumble backwards. Much of he opponents movement is assisted by gravity and the opponents own muscles as they stumble backwards.

    or did you mean how is the distance of an "inch punch calculated?" That is the distance the striking surface moves before it makes contact with the target - this should be one inch. movements after contact are not taken into consideration.
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
  8. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    i maded a thing.

    also, "leading with the waist" (or fist, for that matter) = hurrying up their movement so that it overlaps more with that of the other segments of the kinetic chain and there is less power bleed in between them. see again visualization -> muscle activation -> motion. also the initial element in any motion is posture, which is the semi involuntary response to external forces, mainly gravity, unless you punch from a faceplant :p. everything is already acting in some way, shape or form, and what you do is change how they're acting, rather than "starting" with x or y body part.

    Attached Files:

  9. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    right on mr fish or put another way

    external [​IMG]


    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
  10. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Well you can do no-inch punch too. Such basics. Much Wing Chun.
  11. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    That's not a power strike, it is a pressure point strike. In fact, the lighter the hit, the more effective pressure point strikes are.

    This does not mean that no power is generated, it just means that the power generated only needs to be a simple basic method, not a complex combination of many methods.

    The primary multiplier of force is going to be using the law of inverse squares. By hitting with a single knuckle or two knuckles rather than the whole hand you get more pressure applied for the same amount of energy. One knuckle is going to hit with about 16 times the force than hitting with five knuckles. Two knuckles about 4 times the force. On a heavy power hit, the fist penetrates so you really never can hit with a single knuckle and even a two knuckle hit spreads out more. However, on a light power hit, you get pretty much the full multipliers so his two knuckle hit is going to feel 4 times the pressure/force on the target as a five knuckle hit.

    The other big component of the power is going to be alignment. A sharper triangle is going to transfer more of the body mass/structure behind the strike.

    The rest of the power is just a simple whip action, IMHO.
  12. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

  13. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Is the sharper triangle formed by the two shoulders and the hand normally taught as basics in Wing Chun?

    For some reason I didn't think it was. Well except in weapons work, which I suppose translates to unarmed.
  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Judging by the size of the guy, I think he was tapping his hernia.

    That'd make him do that Spandau ballet impression.

    Not this Spandau:

    [ame=""]Spandau Ballet - Gold - YouTube[/ame]

    THIS Spandau:

    [ame=""]Spandau Maxim Machine gun MG08 - YouTube[/ame]
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    You forgot the winding on the 3rd picture. Add some spirals! ;)
  16. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    If external MAists could initiate gross movement without first engaging their core muscles, that would make them way more impressive than any IMA!
  17. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    You use a hula hoop by rotating your hips :confused:

    I'm still not seeing any way to rotate your waist without rotation of the hips or shoulders.

    Joints rotate. That's, for all intents and purposes, all they do.
  18. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Is that what you are calling hip rotation? I thought we agree that hip rotation is turning at the hip (open and closing the hip). The hula hoop uses a rocking motion, similar to a weight shift.

    [ame=""]Hula Hoop Basics: Vol 1 : How to Hula Hoop Better - YouTube[/ame]

    I don't see much TURNING of the hip, but I do see ROCKING the hip side to side and forward and back.

    Please clarify if you consider these the same thing.

    P.S. can't wait for Hannibal to roll his eyes at a hula hoop video in this thread about power generation.
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
  19. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    What Bruce is doing with the more oblique stance is something found in the jin choi, related to using the luk dim boon gwan. It's also why his weight it in the middle of his feet instead of using tsui ma. While the addition of those mechanics from farther in the system is usually an advanced level skill he's not using it to add extra hip rotation so it's not an assisting mechanic here.

    Mostly just lets the demo look cool because you're sideways :D
  20. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    way ahead of you :p

    Attached Files:

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