Where to begin... Sub holds aren't effective...right... But your flying wrist throws are? Guess what, every submission hold is a break. If I have you in an arm bar, then I break it. I have you in a kimura, oh, guess what, I just dislocated your shoulder. So, you're gonna tell me that sub-holds aren't street effective? They're extremely effective, and a very quick way to end a fight that has gone to the ground. This is what people don't understand about grappling in street vs. ring scenarios. It is very easy to get a submission hold on someone who has no clue what they are doing on the ground, and it can be done extremely quick. I feel the same way, friend.
MMA training is a much more realistic mindset toward preparing yourself for street self-defense than the majority of what you will see in your class. Incorrect. The skills that you are training in are not likely to be the right ones, especially in an art like Kuksool, with so many schools placing emphasis on "low-percentage" moves like wrist throws. Secondly, testing your skills in an MMA format is not necessarily about fighting in a competition. Rather, it is literally about pressure testing your training in a venue that has a few rules as possible, and thus reflects the street as closely as possible. It is entirely possible to add in multiple opponents and training weapons for added realism. In essence, those skills that you have been training in and are so competent in...can still fail you if they are the wrong tools for the job. Read as: I have no desire to test what I know, push myself beyond my comfort zone, or actually train in a martial manner. And that is a fine motivation. If that is the only reason you train in a given art or style, then that is all you need. Tell me you do Kuksool for fun, and I'll smile and say great, because it can be a great time, and a fun and challenging hobby! This is a different matter though. If you say an art can teach you the skills you need to defend yourself against an attacker, then you have just made a claim that requires verification. It requires testing. I hope you enjoy gambling.
Or, you could analyze the threats you are most likely to face in your life, and train in a manner that addresses those threats, using methods of alive, resistive training. Kuksool is meant to be a combative skill. It's right there in the name. 術/술/sul means skill. It's the same character that is pronounced jutsu in Japanese and shu in Mandarin. As in bujutsu and wushu. The problem is that the goals of the art and the training methods don't match up. And is there any reason why animal days, or training in an MMA format should not be a part of kuksool training?
QUOTE=MadMonk108]MMA training is a much more realistic mindset toward preparing yourself for street self-defense than the majority of what you will see in your class. mindset poberbly, skills not nessercerally. practicing 1 on 1 will only help you so far. most street fights have u out numbered at least 5-1. check cctv fotage and see for yourself. The skills that you are training in are not likely to be the right ones, especially in an art like Kuksool, with so many schools placing emphasis on "low-percentage" moves like wrist throws. wrist locks make up a small percentige of the skills taught in kuk sool, and are generally practised as a way of controlling an opponent before full on fighting breaks out. Secondly, testing your skills in an MMA format is not necessarily about fighting in a competition. Rather, it is literally about pressure testing your training in a venue that has a few rules as possible, and thus reflects the street as closely as possible. It is entirely possible to add in multiple opponents and training weapons for added realism. what you say above is valid, but what makes you think that that dosen't happen in kuk sool schools? In essence, those skills that you have been training in and are so competent in...can still fail you if they are the wrong tools for the job. so can all the skills trained by a full contact fighter, just look at the brawls that have happened between proffesional boxers, these just ended up as couple of guys rolling around on the floor looking like oversived school kids. as you have stated before, its all about the mindset. Read as: I have no desire to test what I know, push myself beyond my comfort zone, or actually train in a martial manner. well as you don't know me. you don't know what experiances i have had, and weather i have been tested and pushed out of my comfert zone. just for the record, i have been in plenty of comfrontational situations, which i have escaped from (not trained for in mma, but parkour is of great use here) worked as security at music venues, been attacked and defended myself on a couple of occasions and been in a couple of riots, the most pressure tested, lawless and comfort zone free places in a peacefull contry. and i do train in a martial manner, both armed and with my weapons. If you say an art can teach you the skills you need to defend yourself against an attacker, then you have just made a claim that requires verification. It requires testing. see above I hope you enjoy gambling. no, i don't gamble, thats why i train. [/QUOTE] all the reasons you give for training in mma, can and are being trained in in kuk sool class's around the world, its just that not everyone see this and not every kuk sool school trains like this. i fully agree with this kind of training, but not to the extent used in mma if your not training for the ring.
Right lets go through this slowly, cos yes I am calling you a complete Where did I say flying wrist holds were street effective???????? Find anypost any thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No, I just said that at the age of 32 I didn't have the time to dedicate when already learning to make my martial art, more arty another load of stuff that isn't street effective. Been there done that side of my training, yet if you want to read everything that everyone writes on here as something different to what it is feel free. Man your head is so far up your own 'rse perhaps if you push it further you'll see some light!!!!!!! Heres something to do, right hold your breath don't breath, run up and down on the spot and throw your arms around a lot how long can you last?????? Now if it was longer than 5 secs, you live in a dream world that you have just choked me out ( by the way I am gonna struggle and you aren't gonna get it on clean, after all I'm not totally clueless,) and got up,or freed up your body into a position where you can defend yourself from the other 3 people that were attacking you. So basically i'm unconscious! you're in hospital or the morgue wow you won then!!!!!!! I have never anywhere said its not effective in a match fight. Man I trained this **** for near on 7 years it has its place and I think it has merit but for gods sake don't tell me its the be all and end all in a street fight with multiple attackers. Stay in the ring and live in your dream world. Cos the european and world vale tuda champions I know train totally different for the ring to what they do the street. But then I'm sure your ring record and life experience is much better than theirs or mine!!!!!!! Oh by the way if you think your funny.......... you're not if you think you know everything....... you don't and you haven't got a clue what I know, or why I now train martial arts so don't think you actually can assertain from a comment like............... being able to choke someone out or apply an arm bar isn't street effective as i believe that wrist locks work on the street damn you are so dumb its silly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh by the way also don't call me "friend" you're not and I only have friends I respect. Hmmm lets see nope can't find anything in any of your posts to warrant that!!!!!! Oh and if you want to learn to be a street fighter fighting on the streets is the only way cos no matter how few rules there are in mma there are still rules thats the whole point dummy!!!!!!!!! :bang: :bang: Members of MADMONKS fan club ............... think I'll pass thanks!!!!!!
When first hearing of Gary Goodridge I was proud that someone within the art I was sudying had had the bals to prove the effectiveness of KUK SOOL in the ring. At the time I beleived that KUk SOOL was a pre-mixed martial art on account of the different ranges covered. This I beleived was a chance for the art to be proven in what at present is the most legal and prestigious way to display the skillz of a martial artist. The fact it was a con was embarrasing to the art and it's students. Why then has there not been a true KSW entrant till now. there have been fighters from many traditional martial arts including Hapkido which has similar routs to KSW. The Hapkido stylist often had to crosstrain to be effective. It may be the lack of willingness to encourage crosstraining in KSW that realy keeps it out the cage, not the art itself. To be fluid we often have to break from the book!
or maybe, its just that no-one wants to enter the ufc. if you feel so strongly about it, why don't you start looking at getting into this sort of comeptition? i know of 1 kuk sool student who is looking into training to fight in no holds barred comps and has gone to korea to further his training in this regard.
Heres something to do, right hold your breath don't breath, run up and down on the spot and throw your arms around a lot how long can you last?????? Now if it was longer than 5 secs, you live in a dream world that you have just choked me out ( by the way I am gonna struggle and you aren't gonna get it on clean, after all I'm not totally clueless,) and got up,or freed up your body into a position where you can defend yourself from the other 3 people that were attacking you. Ohhh silent one you seem a little upset by the crazy one. Thats not very respectful. Just to point out that MMA are about learning differant arts for different ranges. eg, striking and grappling. If you go to the floor how will you return to your feet in time to stop his mates if you dont know what to do. Do not think it will be the same as the dojang with an ironed dobok and your bare feet. you may have chairs tables sick and broken glass to deal with and if horse stance was going to help you remain on your feet then everybody would do it in mma and the cage fighters. Please analise your art if you want to improve it as it needs to change. We are no longer in occupied korea where arts are outlawed. its time to break from tradition and find a way forward.....................
or maybe, its just that no-one wants to enter the ufc. if you feel so strongly about it, why don't you start looking at getting into this sort of comeptition? i know of 1 kuk sool student who is looking into training to fight in no holds barred comps and has gone to korea to further his training in this regard. Already taken the initiative matt . Cheers for the advice though!!!
I think the bit you are missing from that quote is bit higher up where I have trained mma for 7 years, I do actually know what it is thanx!!!!!!! Maybe I just thought it was time to keep the ironed pyjamas a bit cleaner for a while!!!! I have also studied a lot of British Combat Association stuff, boxing 1 on 1 with quite a high level practisioner, been to lots of seminars held by Dave Turton and the new breed guys, and still have lots of links with these associations. So that would be links with top Judo, kick boxing, Muay, RBSD, MMA and most arts then!!!! Man does everyone have selective reading on here or what!!!! And yes when you are trying to teach a granny to suck eggs she tends to get a litlle annoyed when it goes over and over and over the same stuff!!! Just cos someone thinks they have jumped on a bandwagon I was part of years before it became popular does not make them an expert or me a fool!!!! Waits for next predictable response zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
well silent one, it would appear that you have as i did and still do, improved your ksw with other teachings. You are a great example of how my argument is right.
No thats the whole point thats what I "THOUGHT" I was doing "improving my kuk sool". But It's not about that, you have to realise that a traditional martial art is not about fighting on the streets in the 21st century, its about tradition. What you do outside of that to make it more relevant isn't about changing the art, or making it better, its about making your own "art" for you for a specific situation, and as such mma although better preperation being contact does not make you a skilled self defence practisioner. Learning to fight in a ring under mma rules is learning how to stretch the rules to win. Its not about defending yourself on the street.........when do you get up and run away at the first possible chance in a mma ring?????? you don't you just keep on fighting (not a bad mentality to have but you need more than that for self defence) therefore you adapt a "fight......control.........fight" mentality when you should be developing an "fight to escape........escape........escape" one!!!!
But It's not about that, you have to realise that a traditional martial art is not about fighting on the streets in the 21st century, its about tradition. I beleive this is specific to ksw as its aim is to preserve something that was illegal. and it has done a better job that the scottish dirk and stick fighters for example. But this is not necessarilly good for the 21st century western world where laws, weapons and even surfaces have changed. There are alot of good KSW techniques, many I have employed myself against the brutally untrained. However I became out of my depth when confronted by trained opponents from full contact arts. This was where a need to train on a higher level came into play. WE can only get so far with a willing opponent. You do not have to beat crap out of each other all the time but a bit of pressure is where you learn what works and what does not.
FIrstly yes thats the bit about finding your own art within an art. Secondly, Did you ever address the reason you were coming to blows with the trained opponents from full contact arts in the first place????? Yes, again agreed pressure testing is needed but this whole thread and subsequent argument was about entering a UFC to prove how effective your art was or to get in a ring to do it. I don't think you need to, they are different things entirely. And everyone who keeps dissing the art and its practicioners are assuming that they all sit on their backsides and believe that the compliant techniques they learn are street and have never pressure tested them. Thats a REALLY big assumption!!!
Why is the only Kuk Sool entrant in UFC a fake? If martial arts are fighting arts then why is the ufc unrealistic, we have to adapt our rules on the street.
Secondly, Did you ever address the reason you were coming to blows with the trained opponents from full contact arts in the first place????? Willingness to acept a challange, working in a suitable enviroment. and sparring with likeminded friends
Lots of reasons mainly politics.................... does there need to be???? I honestly think that you are just still clinging to the fact that you want Kuk Sool to work perfectly every time because you have spent so much time on it. Was self defence the first reason you started Kuk Sool??? go out and find your holy grail and good luck with it all
