I would say thats exactly my opinion too. Wouldn't it be cool if Master Barry Harmon or some other KSW master entered the UFC? How d'you think masters primarily trained in just KSW would do there? D'you think they'd be successful and kick lots of ass? lol. Just a thought.
Personally.... UM........................................................ NO different ball game all together. Though you have a very valid point about Miss Cuthbert. Would you like her mobile number??????????????
It was just a thought... But, hmm, its probably a dumb question, but how would it be a different ball game? I probably know the answer somewhere but I'm just wondering how you think of it. lol and about Elisha Cuthbert... I obviously wouldn't mind having her mobile number, but if you did have it I wouldn't give it to me if I was you because I'd regret giving it to anyone.
Ok the reason i put that is someone primarily trained in a traditional martial art such as kuk sool won (Oh god this is going to get so many people saying this is wrong but hey ho. ) has less experience of full contact sparring. (there i said it) Also although groundwork is covered it isn't gone into in any great detail ( i'm talking syllabus here guys, Martley did say someone who was trained in ksw he didn't mention cross training ok) so as most of the fights end up at some stage on the floor there is no real game plan for move,,counter,counter, counter, stop myself from getting smashed, counter finish. Also think about your class (though yours may be different i know where you train) what percentage of time is taken up with free sparring as opposed to technique practice. So kuk sool is predominantly an art based on techniques i would say.( god i'm digging a hole here) So they are Masters of a system that has predominantly been trained in a non conflict way so they would not be used to this type of tournament. Does that make sense without being offensive cos its not meant to be. I believe that there are some very good all round fighters within the art. I just don't think they are completely pure Kuk Sool Won. And yeah you can have her number, she's cute but Nadines better in bed
Yeah I know exactly what you mean, it was sort of what I was thinking you were going to say, lol. I would never even think of competing in a full contact martial arts event, but its fun to watch them. And you sure know your women... :Alien:
imo. kuk sool practitioners would not fare well in mma, because we are trained in small joint locks (banned in mma to my knowledge) and all our locks, strikes ect are designed to break joints and bones, tear muscles and tendens, strike vital pressure points and just generaly mess up the attackers body, none of which would go down well in a sporting arena. kuk sool is about breaking someone as quickly as possible so that the can't hurt you mma is about beating someone (in a controlled enviroment) into submission the idea of mma is not to maim someone for life, just to win the round. in kuk sool everything (pretty much) you learn is designed to do the most damage possible (maim, disfirgure, kill) to you assailent with the least amount of effort/risk to you. the two are not really compatable. one is a martial art, and the other is a martial sport.
I can see your point but I dont agree. When ever anyone steps into the octagon they should be prepared to get it on. The fact that they dont get so badly hurt is that they are very well trained against locking techniques. But if you asked a fighter any real fighter if they would rather win by a knockout or by submition they would all say knockout. DL
DL you dont quite see my point. i'm not saying that mma fighters aren't supreme athletes, they are, i'm just saying that they fight under very specific guidlines. if you put a mma fighter into a pro boxing match, or pro tkd match there chances of winning are greatly reduced because they cannot use most of the techniques (arsenal) that they have been training in. the same applys if you put kuk sool or any other unmodified for the rules of the ring martial art into a cage fight. allthough this clip is very movie fu, it will help to illustrate how a joint locking/breaking martial artist would fight. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5160687959094960616&q=tony+jaa&pr=goog-sl to take kuk sool to a ring you would have to adjust your skills and fighting technique to fight within there rules, basically to make a sport version. now i have the upmost respect for anyone who steps into a ring and does any kind of full contact fighting, but at the end of the day all there trying to prove is who is the best athlete, they are not (potetialy) fighting for there lives/survival. and to me that is the differance between martial sports and martial arts.
there certainly is a difference between martial sports and traditional martial arts. Both of the examples you have provided were sports based. Kuk Sool Won is different the world over. I can see your point however my point is that as Kuk Sool incorporates such a diverse mix of techniques it could be advantagous along with other skills in the ufc world. I just dont think that kuk sool would be lossed in the mma world but that is perhaps a very personal opinion due to the methods I train under as I incorporate alot of boxing and grappling however this has been tought to me by my instructor in class. DL
I have watched the movie clip you attached and I see your point but there is a big difference between that clip and how another trained fighter would attack you in the octagon. DL I like the clip tho!!
OK not wanting to fuel this argument, as i kinda agree with both points of view to some degree. I will just add that i know of 3 highly ranked practitioners in this art in this country. That when they have had any trouble haven't joint locked people but have knocked them straight out. KO's would always be my primary line of attack and are theirs. It just ends things quicker. Also there have been multiple cases where people have locked and broken peoples joints only for them to be knocked out by the assailant and wake up in hospital. A broken bone desn't always end a fight. And i also found it quite hard to get them on when i trained them live. But thats opened me up to ridicule i guess lol
that is kinda the point I am trying to make along with the fact that the guys of the UFC are trained to sustain the pain and escape locks and techniques. Although I too can see the point that has been made by my friend. DL
I suppose it depends on the degree of the seriousness of the situation, if its basically life and death then the breaks will be to crucial areas, like the neck. Its not just locks though, strikes to the joints or even strikes to weak areas like the neck will obviously end the fight very quickly.... probably totally irrelavent but still :Angel:
True enough, a kick to the nuts hurts like hell too. I wouldn't bet on myself being able to land it everytime. :Angel:
Martial art/martial sport That is possibly the best distinction I've ever heard about the difference between martial art and martial sport. Thank you.
I see it differently. I see a martial sport as focused on tournaments, competition, and fighting. MMA, UFC, etc., and generally emphasizing people in their peak condition (usually ~18-35 year old men) I see a martial art as focused on developing the whole person: Fighting / sparring, meditation, ki training, healing; and having a place for everyone.
I just really want to point up, once again, that standing joint breaks are perfectly legal in the UFC and similar mixed martial arts competitions. Once again, perfectly legal. You CAN do them. Injuries - including severe injuries - are just another part of the game. The rules against "small joint manipulations" refer only to finger and toe breaking. Wrists and ankles (along with knees, elbows, shoulders, spine, whathaveyou) are all legal areas for applying finishing holds too. Personally, though I am not a KSW practicioner (I wish I was.... there just isn't any in my area), it seems to me that it could be effective as PART of an MMA training regimen, IF the practicioner was willing to adapt his skills to that environment. This would also mean training in things, which as I understand, are not part of the usual KSW syllabus (such as submission grappling). It'd be the same as if you wanted to fight in a kendo match (KSW uses swords a lot, right?). You'd have to adapt what you learn to the kendo environment. Some things might not be practical for it, other things might have to be studied up on or developed.
That was Tony Jaa. Tony Jaa fought Muay Thai. Tony Jaa also did a lot of gymnastics as a kid, some performance wushu, and some other stuff. However, as I understand it, he primarily studied Muay Thai. It you read the interviews with him about Ong Bak, you'll see that he says that he pretties up his MT moves with a lot of gymnastics for the movies. That clip isn't an illustration of a good way to fight, and I'm sure if you talked to Tony Jaa, he would say that real fighting is nothing like that. I feel like I'm having trouble explaining myself here - I guess what I'm trying to say is that this isn't a very good illustration of non sport fighting. Tony Jaa is a sport fighter who is an excellent gymnast with good acting and performance MA skills. This shouldn't be taken as a "see outside of the ring, fighting becomes more like this". It's be more like "only in a controlled environment where there's no danger of injury can someone fight like this". Tony Jaa admits that the things he does for movies only look that way because they're meant to look that way. If you saw Ong Bak, you might very well thing "ooh, Kung Fu" - but all that fancy stuff is just Muay Thai in a non-resistive, safe setting, with some gymnastics. He doesn't really fight like that - It's not that the rules prevent him from fighting like that. Most of the things he does in Ong Bak would be legal in a thai boxing match (ok, most of the stuff in THIS clip of him wouldn't be legal in Thai Boxing, but it *would* be perfectly legal in MMA). It's just that the fancy, TMA looking things don't work when the other guy hits back hard and doesn't go down on command. I also want to point out, never in Kuk Sool did I train anything that was illegal in MMA (ok, there was this one biting seminar, but I didn't go to it). Wrist lock, elbow locks, shoulder locks, kicking, punching, knife hands and palm strikes are all legal.
