Garth's & Others Credentials?

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Shibari, Oct 20, 2008.

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  1. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Nut Job Posted

    And thats the crux of it isnt it?

    You see if the Bujinkan had their house in order then i could quite understand people questioning my actions, but what do we have in the Bujinkan?

    Empire builders like you say, bad examples of taijutsu as evidenced by you tube clips, let alone attending seminars and actually seeing these people. People reaching incredible grades after only a few years training. Not to mention the ridiculous 15th dan. Websites that have claims that are just a nonsense claiming to teach everything from gyokushin ryu, kuji kiri, hostage extraction, and oh so much more. (and you think Genjutsu is bad).
    Lets not even mention the deaths that have occured in the hands of Bujinkan instructors in the past. And now the Bujinkan is becoming a religion. Classic.

    Ok maybe i'm not with any of the major kans be it Genbukan, Bujinkan, or Jinenkan or for that matter To-shin Do. But there again I still got flack when I was in To-Shin Do so whats it matter. You guys will take the Micky whatever I do.

    The truth is that the Bujinkan has always had this holier than though attitude when it comes to other groups actions as though they have the monopoly on truth.

    I feel that I have been more than forthcoming with my answers in regards to training.

    I notice you avoided saying what group you taught. Very convenient. Double standards springs to mind mate.

    Something that has been going on for months. And I take notice of what members here have said (the genjutsu part will be coming down as soon as my new website is built).

    To be honest i'm always open for criticism, otherwise i wouldnt be in here talking to you guys. But sometimes its the way you do it. Instead of just saying 'Do you realise how that comes across on the yahoo groups or how people might see it" which is a good and polite way of making suggestions. Instead you just see it as an excuse to have a laugh at someone elses expence.

    Wheres these arts of enlightenment that we hear so much about?

    Or have not Bujinkan members heard of the Butoku.

    I've have always tried to be as helpful as I can to members, unfortunately its not a compliment thats always returned. Although i would like to say a thankyou to those people that have supported me, it seems not all Bujinkan people are the same and I apologise if you feel that i have summed you up in this post.

    Where will I go from here. Well as ironic as it sounds at one point a couple of years ago I was considering joining the Bujinkan. In fact i think I even raised the issue on the forum once. I thought it would be good for my students to have a link with a tradition that links to Japan. But to be honest over the last few months the actions of Bujinkan members have actually disuaded me.

    What will i do in the future. actually I dont know. I will probably go on training as i have always done. I will keep attending seminars as and when I see one I fancy, although having my wife on shifts and two kids to look after is not as easy any more.

    Any way i think i have answered enough questions for now, i've been more than forthcoming. I'm sure you will find another target to have a laugh at shortly and when you cant find one you can always argue amongst yourselves. Something that happens I might add on a regular basis.

    And something that only happens in the Bujinkan. You never see it in the other X Kan. I guess that says something about them.

    and dean Winchester posted

    Well actually Dean, and I dont mean to be rude, but i'm not in the Bujinkan so it has nothing to do with you.

    Garth
     
  2. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    See there's your problem Garth what will you teach?

    You don't belong to any system now, as I understand it, so you can't for example teach and grade in Bujinkan Taijutsu you can't offer grades in Toshindo. You sure as hell can't claim to be teaching the individual schools.

    So really just what are you offering students? It's not Bujinkan Taijutsu, it's not Toshindo and it sure isn't Ninjutsu.
     
  3. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    Actually Garth i don't see a problem with grades , if you do award grades (i'd assume you do as this is what the general public expects from most martial arts) as long as you say it's in your own system you can give any grade you want.
     
  4. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    I just don't understand why you don't off and join the Genbukan for example and carry on studying? Why the need to teach and why the need to big yourself up with these claims of teaching apsects of the art that if you were honest with yourself you aren't qualified to teach.
     
  5. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Dean winchester posted

    Well i'll tell you what Dean if Ninjutsu (the total art of self protection) is best represented by Bujinkan theni'll offer grades in Yoga, its a bit more self defence orientated.

    LOL

    Garth
     
  6. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    That really is the only other option for him.

    Either don't grade and just point out that what he is teaching is just what he's learnt over his time studying or create his own system which in itself IMO isn't really a smart move becuase all he will be doing is teaching stuff from other existing systems.
     
  7. garth

    garth Valued Member

    bassai posted

    Absolutely, If I call what i do something like Tic Tac To Ninjutsu then in reality what can they do about. Ok they might say its not the real stuff (But what is?). And as long as my students are bloody good what does it matter.

    And just a point but why is it that those people who have left the Bujinkan and formed their own styles seem to be a whole lot better than those still in the Bujinkan?

    Garth
     
  8. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Dean winchester posted

    How do you know I havent. How do you know that my name might have been mentioned to Mr Tanemura and that I am allowed to go back. How do you know that I havent already arranged lessons in this country?

    The answer is you dont.

    But like so many other times people presume.

    Garth
     
  9. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    You wont "get to me" or annoy me by running down the Bujinkan. I'm well aware of the problems that exist heck I'm pretty vocal myslef about them. I'm in it becuase I have a dam good teacher who I trust if I didn't I wouldn't be in it and if my teacher started to claim things like being able to teach Genjutsu, "Ninja hypnotism" or anything else that I knew they didn't actually have real experience in then I'd walk and wouldn't look back.

    It still doesn't take away the fact that you wont be teaching Ninjutsu.
     
  10. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    I kind of see your point dean , but , ultimately there's only so many techniques out there and the more i see of other martial arts (i'm primarily a karate ka) , the more i recognise , hell the first Bujinkan class i went to i recognised ganseki nage from one of our kata.
     
  11. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Dean Winchester posted

    That really is the only other option for him.

    Now your getting there Dean. If I teach my own style, regardless of what i call it (as long as i dont call it Genbukan, Bujinkan etc) then in reality I can grade people in what i want.

    I have 24 years experience in this art training with lots of people. I will still go to seminars, still learn more, still make mistakes, still grow from them. But as long as i am giving my students what they want, I dont see a problem with it.

    Funny enough, and I wont even begin to compare myself to this man, but when stephen Hayes first began to-Shin Do, even after all his experience people still wanted to throw mud and question his actions.

    I think Dr Hatsumi said it once in one of his books, and again im making no comparison to myself, but he said that even Nichiren had stones thrown at him.

    Garth

    Garth
     
  12. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    If that's the case why are you putting ads out teaching Garth-jutsu?
    Also one reason I formed what I said as a question was for the very reason that you are right I don't know. What I said wasn't stated as fact, I enquired.
     
  13. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    I didn't say there was a problem with you offering grades in your own system, I was just genuinely curious about what those grades would be in.

    Maybe it's just me but I don't understand this need for people to rush out and set up their own systems when (a) they don't hold any particularly stellar qualifications in the arts they have trained in and (b) when there are enough good teachers around to train with in existing systems/arts already.

    I have never had any intention of teaching and I don’t think I will.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2009
  14. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Yes but I bet it was approached differently for whatever reasons.

    I'm not talking about similarities due to arts sharing a specific culture or period of history that’s a given.


    I'm talking about that Garth will (going on his ads) just be regurgitating Bujinkan/Toshindo "stuff" if you are going to do that why not carry on training in an X-Kan related org?
     
  15. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    IMO it matters because it's not entirely honest. That's what it comes down to and please don't throw a load of Bujinkan teachers at me who do the same because I have exactly the same sort of problem with them.

    Be honest about your training stand on your own merits that’s all I think a teacher should do. Not go claiming to be teaching things that they haven’t actually learnt just for “marketing” or whatever.

    Hmm maybe I’m just too idealistic in wanting a bit of integrity in a teacher?
     
  16. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    Yeah , you have a point with that, i suppose it would be like me breaking away from my instructor and just teaching shotokan under a different name.
     
  17. Nutjob

    Nutjob Jimmy Tarbuck

    I'm sure the same could be said for any org at the moment, i mean lok at AIG and HBOS....


    <insult removed> i live quite happily with some close friends, i only have a few, but lots of two way respect...

    No need for this kind of post. That you disagree or dislike Garth is one thing but you not being his best buddy is in no way a reflection on the 'kind of person' Garth may or may not be.

    Do you not think this attitude runs throughout any org people are proud of? look at people who discuss football, my mate is a villa fan, if you knock them he will stand up for them to the nth degree, passion i would call it, passion for something you are proud of, you may never have this feeling unless you find something unique that will make you big bucks, something you have not found as to yet....

    Attitudes Gary, Attitudes.......

    Not really, i dont advertise, i dont need to, no adverts on the net, no websites, my club is thriving from word of mouth..

    Again, attitudes, your attitude on every forum promotes people to vilify you at every occasion, maybe kick off those tabi's sometime and take a relaxing backseat on the ride for a change....

    Not everyone 'vilifies' garth. There a significant portion of posters who seem capable of disagreeing with garth without constantly insulting him. Please take a leaf out of their book.

    Probably where they should be, hidden away from empire builders, crap teachers and indies....
    Unnecessarily deregatory.... characterising everyone who you disagree with as being unworthy of receiving the 'true' ninjutsu teaching is simply not necessary and insulting. This is not a Bujinkan only forum.

    I dont think you have really, i think you enjoy taking shots at the bujinkan at every turn, the very same org where all you knowledge, whichever way it came TSD, Xkan whatever, the same training you vilify at every turn, everything you have on that site makes me think you are Bjk, not Gen or Jin but Bjk, you advertise exactly like a Bjk club does, badly....

    Stop for once, go outside, listen to the tree and breathe in fresh air, the world is not at a Pc or forum, its our there to enjoy, enjoy it....

    For the love of God, drop the holier than thou attitude! Your posting on an online martial arts forum too! Chances are Garth is already well aware of the outside world and doesn't need you to remind him... so please stop and think before posting unnecessary condescending insults.

    I would be happy to train with you as i did once before....just stop been a goon for once...

    Good on ya, keep going.....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2009
  18. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Well if you do just remember the name GKR is already taken :D :D
     
  19. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Your sense of humour is as sharp as ever Bassai. :evil:

    Just in case it was missed - there are at least 10 separate and independent organisations all teaching 'Shotokan Karate' in the UK and probably hundreds across the world. All because at some point in time a person has broken away from his instructor. :)
     
  20. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    Actually they've also ripped err i mean taken influences from goju ryu as well.
     
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