gaining mass

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Al_Bundy, Jun 16, 2007.

  1. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    Yeah, I was kinda wondering how he "ruled out" nutrition when I made a perfectly valid and logical point :confused:

    Olive oil and nuts/nut butters should be your new friends.
     
  2. Al_Bundy

    Al_Bundy Valued Member

    I've always watched what i eat, as i've always been on a diet. I'm not on a diet now, but still watch everything i eat, so believe me when i say it's healthy. I literary stuff my self every meal coz i know thats the only way. So it's the program. Only thing i'm not doing and i probably should is taking extra protein via shakes ect. Theres a thread here on MAP about chocolate milk being a very good recovery aid. Does it apply to anaerobic training as well or would protein shakes be more efficient?
    Later today, i'll check out TheCount's program in detail. I'll definately do the squats rutine he recomended, as you all backed it up. Also need to incorporate the back into the program.
     
  3. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    It's not what you're eating that is in question, it's how much. If you aren't putting on muscle and/or fat, then you aren't eating a surplus of calories and therefore have NO chance of gaining a decent amount of weight. You need to keep eating as you are but add in more calories through very energy-dense foods like oils and nuts or nut butters. Milk is a good one too if you can take the lactose.

    Yes, your program isn't perfect and needs addressing but if you change that and don't change your nutrition, you still won't reach your goals. 20 rep squats is a good program but you MUST be eating a surplus of calories to gain weight and to have any hope of recovering for the next session.

    Chocolate milk is a cheap option for a post-workout drink. I prefer a good protein shake, ideally with 2:1 ratio of simple carbs:protein. There are other goodies like creatine that can go in there if you want but that's upto you.

    For the back you need to get pulling. Rows and chins are great.
     
  4. TheCount

    TheCount Happiness is a mindset

    If you aren't growing then you may have plateud or you aren't eating proper. Changing outine and diet will solve everything.

    What you want to get getting:
    AT LEAST 4 portions of vegetabes a day, at least 3 portions of fruit. At least 2k5 cals depending on your size.. most probably about 3k or more for you. You need to be getting at least 80g of protein for your sort of weight and 400g of carbohydrate. Roughly speaking.

    Chances are you are getting 3 meals a day, hence why you stuff yourself full and dont grow. Try adding a 4th and 5th meal in, maybe a 6th. Between breakfast and lunch, have a snack. Depending where you are etc. a natural peanut butter sandwich on chunky wholemeal bread will be a nice one. Between lunch and dinner ie. about 2.30pm, have another snack. Here is where you can eat some of the veg and fruit you need and could wap in some pasta/rice to bulk it out.

    From the looks of your dietary example it is alright but too lean. Teaspoon of oliveoil on a slice of bread you have at 2.30pm will provide you will some nice EFAs.

    Have a 6th meal about 10pm before you go to bed. Anywhere between 9 and 11 is good. Generally you want this to be high complex carb and fat (you wake up the next day with more energy than you know what to do with).

    An example for what I usued to do: 100g Oats, 30g Nuts, half a TableSpoon (~7.5ml?) of sugar(for taste) all in a bowl then you cover it in FULL FAT milk until it is moist and edible. This is a good 500 calories or more. Even if you just try adding this in at night it will probably benefit you.
     
  5. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    At his age 2500 or even 3000 probably won't be enough to gain a decent amount of weight. I would say more than that but obviously you have to keep experimenting week by week.

    Vegetables, while I wouldn't ignore it, I wouldn't think about as a priority compared to overall calories and protein.
     
  6. Al_Bundy

    Al_Bundy Valued Member

    Ok, so my old program failed it's career and i started a new one. Basically it's TheCount's program.

    About the 1*20 squat rutine; i read about it from that body building site wazzabi posted.....lol. I like the rutine, it feels like i've actually done something.
    Overall, i see now what TheCount ment by saying i got no volume/intensity in my program.
    Nutrition - 3 big meals, 3 snacks. Plenty of protein, calories, fat...Won't talk about food anymore, i'm sick of food.

    TheCount, spirez, wazzabi, Ad McG, Blake_AE
    Thank you for helping me.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
  7. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    Thanks for listening, it makes a refreshing change sometimes! Let us know how you get on :)
     
  8. wazzabi

    wazzabi sushi eater

    nice to know that i helped :cool:
     
  9. TheCount

    TheCount Happiness is a mindset

    Thats great dude, tell us how it goes :)
     
  10. Al_Bundy

    Al_Bundy Valued Member

    Hello again,
    I've got a question. Can i and to what extent, do some heavy bag work? If i do too much, the anaerobic/aerobic effect will cancel each other. So how many rounds and how many days a week? Note: temperature is +35 C here where i am, so i'm sweating like a pig as is.
    Btw, i weigh 83-84 kg now, so thats great. Will try to put on 2-3 kg more.
     
  11. gj5940

    gj5940 Valued Member

    From a fighters point of view do what you need to, if your weight starts to drop increase your protein to 2grams per pound of bodyweight that will help counter balance the loss of muscle tissue. I train in heavy weights and rest pause and still manage to hit the bag at least 3 x a week for cardio benefits, I try different types of combo's for 3x 50 for example

    jab, cross, rear hook kick 3 sets of 50 reps
    lead hook kick, rear cross, lead hook punch 3 sets of 50

    just use your best combo's and experiment with them and good luck with your fights
     
  12. Al_Bundy

    Al_Bundy Valued Member

    Thx for the advice. I think i'll drop the anaerobic training alltogether in a week or two, coz i'm approaching my target weight. I've tried inserting a few rounds of heavy bag in between the weight work days, but it's getting more difficult to recover (i'm not using any protein supplements).
     
  13. gj5940

    gj5940 Valued Member

    I would seriously look into buying some protein powder for use directly after a workout as you are hampering your efforts by not taking any. Also some fast acting carbs like waxy maize to refuel your muscles for the next time, trust me it put size on like you wont believe
     
  14. Al_Bundy

    Al_Bundy Valued Member

    I know it would benefit me, especially when i feel the recovery wasn't full, BUT...i'm not taking any protein or other supplements when in regural training, even in preparation for fights when training regime is most exausting. It's a matter of principal. I hate it when fighters look like alchemist before and after training, mixing all those powders and supplements. It makes me wonder whats the next step - injections direct to the vain?
    I was taking some protein in preparation for a fight in february this year and saw no obvious results in recovery time. In my book it's just not worth the money.
     
  15. gj5940

    gj5940 Valued Member

    Ha Ha ha lol fair do's!
     
  16. Al_Bundy

    Al_Bundy Valued Member

    lol away my friend, i'll start training TKD before i resort to supplements!

    Banzaii!!!!
     
  17. harhar

    harhar I hate semaphores

    Protein supplements are food. Whey is filtered milk basically. Its what you take when you find it hard to stuff a dozen eggs and a few lbs of meat down your throat on a daily basis.

    Again, its food. It will not do anything miraculous like suddenly enhance your recovery time. The only thing that will give you an immediate boost in recovery are anabolic steroids.

    If you are under eating to begin with, all the supplements in the world won't help. I have a pretty average metabolism but when training hard, I had to eat 3500-4000 calories a day to gain any weight (and thats with zero cardio). And I'm a pretty small guy, 5' 8" 175.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2007
  18. Al_Bundy

    Al_Bundy Valued Member

    My point exactly, thank you :)
     
  19. gj5940

    gj5940 Valued Member

    It has been proven that post workout recovery drinks speed up the recovery process, thats why they call it a magic window, it does work and there are hundreds of thousands of people out there that would say so as well. Gear on the other hand I have no idea about and I dont care about it.

    Al if your getting what you need from food then fair play, if you wont take powder why not buy liquid egg whites, still all natural and they will help! IMO
     
  20. Al_Bundy

    Al_Bundy Valued Member

    Egg whites yeh...they used to be my lunch when dieting. Talk about waste of eggs hehe. Liquid egg whites - must visit my local supplement addicts den - the mighty scitek shop. :D
     

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