future of jkd

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by tel, Jan 29, 2006.

  1. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    with the history of jkd easy to find as its on tape, in books and lucky to have most of the orginal students and asst instructors to lee alive we can get a good understanding of the path lee went, with different students telling us where and what bruce was doing at the time they where training with him.
    the poltics and fighting in jkd has been going since the 80's because everyone has there own way and understanding of jkd.
    now as a group it should be up to us to bring the different jkd appraoches together and instead of having shots a other grouos we should strive to help each other and what sure lee idea's principles and concepts that he spent his training yrs developing.jkd will be stronger and will develop healthier if pushes as a whole instead of a civial war.
    personally i like the fact that there are so many approaches to jkd, i really brings out the beliefs of bruce lee and the effort all his students have put in
     
  2. TheMachine

    TheMachine Valued Member

    The irony of it all is that since Bruce injected philosophical aspects into the art, it made things even more complex, and more interesting at times
     
  3. Andy Gibney

    Andy Gibney New Member

    Hi Tel,

    I've got an article coming out in next months' MAI that covers this very subject. I'd love some feedback on it when it comes out.

    Thanks
    Andy
     
  4. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    will do,look forward to it.

    i would just like to add there are many jkd students on here from different groups. simplicity a student of jerry poteet, jkdforever student of ted wong, andy aa student of richard bustillo. i personal like talking to them all and find it not only great but also it gives me a better understanding of these groups.
    simplicity helped me get a better understanding of poteet's approach, same with jkd forever and faster than you with the ted wong group.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2006
  5. Simplicity

    Simplicity Valued Member

    Well Thank You Tell......For the kind words....Personally I agree....I've been in the arts 37 yrs most of all of my life, here is my take on Jeet Kune Do and Life.......

    "Think of it this way......When I first started training I took everything as the gospel truth, than I learned that it was someone esles truth or martial arts....Then from that day on, I learned in order for me to get better I would need to take in only what I needed and apply it to my life in that special way....Once I started being instead of doing and researching the root to my own ignorance, my personal art improved......

    JKD has the key to everything......There is no prearranged forms in it....Through BODY FEEL, you experience your own motion, balance, timing and economical use of your energy you produce......The core principles of JKD understanding is in the mind, until you FEEL it there, the body is lost in transition with no where to go!.....Notice I didn't say understand first, I said FEEL it in the mind as the body feels it on the outside to become ONE WITH ONE-SELF, not constantly going against each other......The truth of Jeet Kune Do in my opinion will not be understood by anyone until they understand everything about themself +'s and -'s......You must truly know what makes you tick!.....In my opinion, alot of people are running from themself and have been doing so for a long time.....To understand....WHY AM I HERE?....WHY DO I DO THINGS I DON'T LIKE?.....WHY DO I LET PEOPLE DO THIS TO ME?....WHY DO I BLAME OTHERS FOR WHO I BECOME?....WHY AM I RUNNING FROM THE TRUTH?.....

    As I POINT THE WAY for my students, they in return help me see clearer....As I teach my students SELF-HELP is the key that unlocks the door of life or your truth.....I can't give you freedom, I can only POINT THE WAY because "IT" or Freedom lies within you.......God has giving all of us what we need within ourself, it is there if we choose to find "IT" is another story in its self......

    To All My JKD Brothers and Sisters
    Peace, Love and Soul
    John :)
     
  6. Stxsas

    Stxsas Keep on Flowing..

    Makes camp fire and toasts some marshmallows.. wanting more.. :D
     
  7. JKD_forever

    JKD_forever DEADLIFT!!!!!!!!!!!!

    To unite all people under same JKD umbrella is very hard to do, because everyone has their own stance on what JKD in its purest form actually is.
    I believe that JKD, compared to other martial arts is very "scientific" in its nature. Now if JKD was meant to be that - scientific way of fighting - then there can be only one way of doing things, not two, not three. To be scientific means to perform something in the most mathematically efficient way possible. Punch or kick is scientific in its nature if it follows only one path of execution, same with everything else. And that is what I believe Bruce Lee wanted to do, find the most scientific, most efficient way of fighting. Now I see all these people trying to find something that works for them, when in fact all they have to do is listen. And then they call that thing "their own JKD". And they all are getting away from the true meaning of JKD. Some people have problem with performing JKD moves, and then they say "well that’s not what is working for me". Bull. We are all humans with two legs and two arms, that's the whole point. i.e. If you are too fat too perform the move, then you have other issues to deal with first. Another people simply won’t train something that Bruce did (JFJKD), because they think that's what worked for him, yet if that’s the case then any MA style like M. Thai or TKD wouldn’t make any sense since 10 million people are trying to do the same thing.
     
  8. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    the only thing im wondering is.
    for it to be scientific you would have to test every variation possible.
    because every person has different attributes, such as height, weight, strength, you would need to test all of these possibilities with each individual to be able to conclude which method works best in each circumstance. Not one method will suit everyone.the last sentance is the idea behind the jkd concepts laid down by bruce lee.so yeah your right when you say its scientific
     
  9. neb

    neb Banned Banned

    Another opinion, though not necessarily mine, is to let JKD die. Stop a future of mixed bags of crap from sprouting any further than they allready have done for the sole reason of making money and promoting one's reputation and status in the world of martial arts on Bruce's name.

    Martial arts will remain as it always has done, whether this idea we call JKD is around or not.
     
  10. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    only trouble with that, is the name won't die.this is why inosanto first started teaching it, because people who never done jkd where calling karate jkd, again the reason poteet, wong, bustillo do the same, trying to make sure that people don't just use the mane when doing something else
     
  11. SouL

    SouL Valued Member

    JKD philopspy will always be around whther you choose to let name die or not. Afterall my interpretation of it leads me to belive that bruce very reluctantly named something that had already been around for ages and in doing so just caused confusion. People before him had already experienced gone throuhg the JKD process imo.

    Least if name died people could focus their attention elsewhere and actaully followin their own path instaed of being fixtaed with i study JKD or i am JKD fighter etc...
     
  12. D@vid

    D@vid Valued Member

    There is a bad contradiction between Simplicity and JKD_Forever definition in my opinion, because the word FEELING is totally not in the world of Science. I like Simplicity's statement since that's basically what Bruce's intent was. The word "Scientific" is being used too loosely. You could say "Logical" since economy of motion is being used. The science part only comes in when your teacher, Sifu, whomever actually teaches you about how the body works, and why it works a certain way - you know the SCIENCE part of it. And, most teachers don't give you those type of lessons. They teach to fight, not to understand the human body. Just because you know which area of the body you hit does not make it scientific.

    And one question I have is, how is JKD more Scientific than WC?
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2006
  13. neb

    neb Banned Banned

    By scientific Bruce Lee is talking about practicality. A JKD punch incorporates better waist motion (which is the main driving force behind your punch), footwork that gives greater force on impact (hop forward) and a turn of the knuckles on impact to allow better snapping action.

    WC is very linear with little footwork and waist action in its straight punches. There is less force behind such a punch.

    Movement which has the body's leaverage behind it allows greater force on impact than just the shoulder and forearm behind it. As their is more weight.
    A brick will hit a surface harder than a feather.

    JKD is more scientific because it takes into account the laws of physics in its application more than it does tradition.

    just another word for 'what works best'.
     
  14. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    i would say that jkd and wc use most of the same concepts and prinicples n fighting and training. bruce lee's jkd was scientific in the way he researched
    how is body worked. but if your talking combativly then no neither. as i stated earlier to be scientific you would have to test the technqiues in all variations against all a person's attributes. but thats down to each person.
    really i would go with simpicity because you don't go out and test all this stuff,you learn it,spar it and work out on feel if it suits you.
     
  15. D@vid

    D@vid Valued Member

    Hmmm....

    I'm not sure if you really understand WC, It's not all about tradition. The Science behind the WC punch is to hit the target faster and efficiently obviously if you want power you'll use your shoulders and more foward energy but then you run into a slight problem, when you commit to a punch with too much forward energy it leaves room for counters. WC, like Aikido uses these types of punches to their advantage. That is why you'll never see a WC punch that looks like a Boxer. The punches in WC are all within the gates so it protects all of the body, Please elaborate the scientific theory behind of JKD's stance? Tell me why it's so much better than WC?

    Also, I'm not sure what Sifu you had or who told you but WC does have footwork, maybe not Like a Boxer or JKD but it does. The Scientific theory behind the footwork for WC is for close quarters, since most fights begin up close.

    "Movement which has the body's leaverage behind it allows greater force on impact than just the shoulder and forearm behind it. As their is more weight. A brick will hit a surface harder than a feather."

    I understand this but it doesn't mean that a WC is useless. Scientifically you only need a certain amount of energy to knock someone out or disable them and a WC punch is capable of doing that and more since every single move is there to kill you. Each punch is aimed towards all the weak points; So, how much power do you need when you thrust your finger into their eye socket? How much power do you need when you punch their neck? WC training is designed for this, it's not about punhcing the face. WC principles require you to finish your opponent off as fast as possible. The fastest way to me would kick their balls, gouge their eyes, elbow their head, you get the point. So my question to you is, how is that not scientific?

    And your argument about JKD being more scientific just because it punches a certain away doesn't mean squat. WC punches are linear and avoid shoulder usage because of speed and eficiency. Logically and Scientifically It's faster to shoot your arm out to either block, intercept, or punch, without using your shoulders (like a jab). You just can't beat that speed. The way you're making it sound, JKD uses Boxing methods for power. But how is that more scientific?

    You also stated that "takes into account the laws of physics." What does that mean? Is WC using something that defys physics or something? does it require a student to perform some kind of feat that is too difficult to apply in a fight? Please explain this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2006
  16. D@vid

    D@vid Valued Member

    Totally agree with you

    I agree with you, however, just because he researched it that doesn't make it more scientific. When WC was created, did it not take research? IMO, JKD and WC are both scientific, but that doesn't mean they are the only ones. Boxing (pugilism) which has been around for ages is very scientific.
     
  17. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    agree wc and jkd are almost the same,but bruce lee used science methods to test his power and improve it his body not his art. thats what i mean by bruce lee's jkd was scientific and when feel is talked about this means how the technqiue feels when you try it
     
  18. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    hi andy,
    thought you where spot on, when you talked about jkd moved on from bruce lee.and to call your art jkd you need to have trained in jun fan.
    also where you said that the jkd that is taught is the instructor's view on jkd. so it will keep moving.

    everyone who does or wants to do jkd should look at this article, makes alot of sense.
    well done andy
    and hey a pic of my instructor next to guro inosanto
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2006
  19. neb

    neb Banned Banned

    Much of the JKD you see today being taught is diluted mess that has, as Bruce Lee once said in reference to traditional styles, solidified what was supposed to be fluid.

    Others like Lamar Davis may have been true in aiming to pass on an exact replica of Bruce Lee's methods, but their mistake is calling it JKD. No matter how many opinions you look to on this subject, Bruce Lee did not want JKD to be regarded as such a thing.

    I have said this many times, but too many people regard JKD as punching, moving and training like Bruce Lee when it's about gaining self-knowledge.

    Those who think Bruce Lee has done enough and are happy to just attach themselves to what he learned, being bottle fed as it were, are missing the point of JKD! This isn't about what works well in self defence as much as it is about discovering and, if so be it, creating your own path.

    If you do not strive for self knowledge (not mine, his, hers or Bruce Lees) you will remain ignorant to your own potential.

    Because no matter how you want to look at it, nobody will understand and execute Bruce Lee's way of fighting as well as Bruce Lee, and he knew it. Hence JKD, a process of achieving greater understanding of self.

    Bruce Lee opened a huge door with his philosophies on the martial arts, but many are failing to even walk through it, and instead choose to just sit at the entry point staring at the doorman.

    If more of us did walk through this door long ago, JKD would have ascended far beyond what Bruce Lee had given us. That is how I see it.

    So, in essence, JKD (way of the intercepting fist) is completely the wrong sort of name Bruce Lee should have given to his thoughts on the martial arts. JKD actually should refer to Bruce Lee's application of his thinkings.

    Bruce Lee's label for his collection of thoughts would have to be "no way as way, no limitation as limitation" and should no longer be called Jeet Kune Do.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2006
  20. tel

    tel absorb what is useful for

    neb,agree with you apart form the bob breen bit. don't know what the heck you are on about.
     

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