Fury... not rage

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by PsiCop, Apr 5, 2005.

  1. PsiCop

    PsiCop Antonio gets the women...

    I've noticed that many styles benefit from practitioners who are very intense, and have a "heart of fire" so to speak. These are usually the "hard" styles with Japanese influence. However, in practicing Tang Soo Do (a style with quite a bit of Japanese influence) I notice many of the students are very intense. This can be good and bad. Good in that it will motivate them much better, and give them a lot of power in their techniques. It can be bad in that it can tire them quickly in their training.

    However, I've also noticed something else intriguing. There's two kinds of intensity that I see. One is fury, which is great strength and intensity in the absence of anger. Rage is the opposite. Rage uses anger and aggressive thoughts to fuel their intensity. I have noticed that the ones with rage will keep up their strength for a short while longer than the ones with fury. I've also noticed that the ones that run off of anger will often go a little too far in training and injure their partners more often than those who aren't angry.

    I realize that calmness is a huge part of training and shouldn't be neglected. I just wanted to share my thoughts about the two types of intensity I see. It's my belief that both calmness and fury have their place in a martial art such as this. One just has to judge the right time for both. I don't feel rage should be used, as even though it can give a little boost of energy, it's a sign that a person may be bringing feelings into the Dojang which should be left outside. Just my two cents. ;) Any thoughts?
     
  2. d33pthought

    d33pthought New Member

    In my dojang, there are two very intense students I know of. They kihap like they're taking a dump, and are always hard-hitting when sparring. The thing is, they show little to no control whatsoever, and one even aborts his techniques so he'll avoid hitting me. This is not good, in my opinion. Sure, it's good to be intense, but be intense with what you know, not with what you're learning. A calmer and more attentive attitude will be good for learning new things and developing control, which is more important than power, in my opinion.
     
  3. Highkick

    Highkick Banned Banned

    I feel rage is the undiciplined, unchanelled form of fury. You learn to control your rage, you get fury; a powerhouse of adrenaline that you can tap into when all looks bleak. I'm not saying that it's a way of fighting, because a cool head is usually the best strategy. I'm saying it could be used as a last resort. That's my oppinion.

    By the way, Blooming Lotus, if you respond to this, don't give us any of your pacifist lectures. Try reading the post first before you induce "peace and love"
    and "anger is bad". We have our own oppinions, and they aren't as obselete as you may think.
    *Ahem*(shakes out shoulders) Just thought I'd preemtivley dodge that inevitable bullet of iron budda.
     
  4. Ikken Hisatsu

    Ikken Hisatsu New Member

    my coach sat down with us and had a talk about this the other day. he said that even in the ring you shouldnt throw a punch out of anger- that way you miss, you get tired, and you lose. I think you guys are right, fury is more like an unrelenting attack, not just blind rage fist swinging
     
  5. Jasonds23

    Jasonds23 Banned Banned

    If he gets angry, put the fury on him! :D
     
  6. Albert

    Albert Banned Banned

    I agree with high kick, you can learn to control rage for alot of situations. And turn it into a fury. Rage is what i trained off of for a long time, and it was hardly ever negative, it made my training extremely intense, and without it i would have never trained so hard.
     
  7. PsiCop

    PsiCop Antonio gets the women...

    Sure, I see that fury could be considered as a more controlled form of rage. One still must be careful not to cross the line, though.
     
  8. notquitedead

    notquitedead used to be Pankration90

    Being intense has nothing to do with Japanese influence.
     
  9. PsiCop

    PsiCop Antonio gets the women...

    No, it doesn't. I just said that some Japanese styles use very strong techniques, making them "hard styles". Of course, this isn't true of all of them. An example being Aikido. I just meant that in the sense that some of the "harder" Japanese styles would use it more than the "softer" Chinese styles. I'm saying this from a general point of view. There are many parts of the Chinese martial arts that are very hard and likewise with the Japanese being soft. I apolagize if it was taken the wrong way.
     
  10. Devoken

    Devoken On the Path-Off the Rails

    You have raised an interesting point. I have found that a combatant fighting with rage can be easily out-manouvered and exhausted by a carm, controlled opponent. Once your adversary is tired, this is the time to use fury. Fury is alot more than just controlled rage. Unlike rage, fury has no emotional motivation behind it and is therefor calm and controlled in its own respect. It is carefully calculating, the mind remains focused while the body is unleashed with a great deal of speed and power that is sustainable. It is not random, angry thrashing, but very precise, defense shattering attacks that result from this frame of mind.

    That said, some people do find rage an effective tool in training, though I believe it can only take you so far and then defeats you in the end. But thats just my opinion, find what suits you best and play to your strengths.
     
  11. midnightsun955

    midnightsun955 Valued Member

    I used to think a way to win is to get into the ring and use rage...partly due to this insane guy we have at our dojo who just wins nonstop bc he's on his opponent like flies on honey. But overtime I've been taught that rage can't be controlled, while fury is somethign to strive for...just like someone here said, fury has control and you don't tire easily bc you're not psyching yourself. Now I see him, he's still winning but he is so sloppy bc he forgets all the techniques in the ring and just consentrates on kill kill kill. It's sad. While people who control themselves and actually think in the ring have room to improve more and more, and can out move the raged opponent, he seems to rely only on his rage, which one day might just go away.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2005
  12. shadow joe

    shadow joe seeker of truth

    i think this is a great and valid topic.


    it definitely seems harder to fight with a calm spirit and be intense. Every time i can place myself in that "no mind" state and just play the game without thought of anger or other emotions my movement is smoother and better calculated. The trick seems to be calm while being able to pull intensity when you need it.


    Zen master and advisor to Miyamoto Musashi, Takuan Soho wrote:

    "One's thoughts should not stop anywhere. In anger or love, in martial arts there should be no thinking. If you put the thought into the hand and attempt to strike the thought will stop the hand and ensnare it making it useless. If your mind is everywhere and free, then the strike can come from the hand when needed, from the foot when needed, or the sword when needed."


    i notice when i play that way that my BJJ is tremendously improved. Rather than thinking "oooh i'm going to submit this guy" before we start to roll I just let loose my thoughts to be everywhere.



    just my experiences,
    joe
     
  13. PsiCop

    PsiCop Antonio gets the women...

    Very well said, everyone. I believe "thoughtless" intensity is the best way to go. It allows you to stay collected and view the situation with an open mind. In that kind of state, one is well prepared for any surprises that might come up.
     
  14. Devoken

    Devoken On the Path-Off the Rails

    Excellent quote Shadow Joe! I think you hit the nail on the head with that one.
     

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