From the Horses Mouth

Discussion in 'Women's Self Defence' started by Melanie, Mar 30, 2005.

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  1. Melanie

    Melanie Bend the rules somewhat.. Supporter

    I'm pretty sure you've read something like this over and over already but I happened to come across this so I thought you might be interested

    'A group of rapists and date rapists in prison were interviewed on what they look for in a potential victim and here are some interesting facts:

    The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid or other hairstyle that can easily be grabbed. They are also likely to go after a woman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets.

    The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for women who's clothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors around to cut clothing.

    They also look for women on their cell phone, searching through their purse or doing other activities while walking because they are off guard and can be easily overpowered.

    The time of day men are most likely to attack and rape a woman is in the early morning, between 5 and 8:30 a.m.

    The number one place women are abducted from/attacked at is grocery store parking lots. Number two is office parking lots/garages. Number three is public restrooms.

    The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman and quickly move her to a second location where they don't have to worry about getting caught.

    Only 2% said they carried weapons because rape carries a 3-5 year sentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years.

    If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't worth it because it will be time-consuming.

    These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas, or other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands. Keys are not a deterrent because you have to get really close to the attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys you're not worth it.

    Several defense mechanisms he taught us are: If someone is following behind you on a street or in a garage or with you in an elevator or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them aquestion, like what time is it, or make general small talk, I can't believe it is so cold out here, we're in for a bad winter. Now you've seen their face and could identify them in a line-up, you lose appeal as a target.

    If someone is coming toward you, hold out your hands in front of you and yell Stop or Stay back! Most of the rapists this man talked to said they'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be afraid to fight back. Again, they are looking for an EASY target.

    If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries it with him wherever he goes), yelling I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY and holding it out will be a deterrent.

    If someone grabs you, you can't beat them with strength but you can by outsmarting them. If you are grabbed around the waist from behind, pinch the attacker either under the arm between the elbow and armpit or in the upper inner thigh - HARD. One woman in a class this guy taught told him she used the underarm pinch on a guy who was trying to date rape her and was so upset she broke through the skin and tore out muscle strands - the guy needed stitches. Try pinching yourself in those places as hard as you can stand it; it hurts.

    After the initial hit, always go for the groin. I know from a particularly unfortunate experience that if you slap a guy's parts it is extremely painful. You might think that you'll anger the guy and make him want to hurt you more, but the thing these rapists told our instructor is that they want a woman who will not cause a lot of trouble. Start causing trouble, and he's out of there.

    When the guy puts his hands up to you, grab his first two fingers and bend them back as far as possible with as much pressure pushing down on them as possible. The instructor did it to me without using much pressure, and I ended up on my knees and both knuckles cracked audibly.

    Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of your surroundings, take someone with you if you can and if you see any odd behavior, don't dismiss it, go with your instincts. You may feel a little silly at the time, but you'd feel much worse if the guy really was trouble.
  2. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member

    Well that's it!
    Gonna have to cut my hair, carry an umbrella 24/7, wear layers of clothing, and sleep later in the morning ! :)

    J/K ... what better tips can you get than straight from the horse's mouth.

    Empowerment is key. Most women lack confidence in themselves.... sad but true
  3. dragon_bunny

    dragon_bunny Valued Member

    possibly why my sensi showed us a few techniques that were for back attacks .. well he looked at me (i have longish hair) and said it's mainly if someone grabs your hair... goddamit if they touch the 'do i'll kill them!! j/k :D

    good points though :)
    we got told by someone to scream 'fire' insted of rape because more people will help then also if they do have you pinned scratch the hell out of them for DNA (though may just **** them off more) or try throwing up /peeing on them/telling them your on your period - has a good chance of grossing them out enough for them to be put off and has to be worth a shot :)
  4. Kwajman

    Kwajman Penguin in paradise....

    Or carry a .45 and just shoot them.
  5. GojuKJoe

    GojuKJoe Valued Member

    As usual, the American answer to any situation, the .45 :woo: :D
  6. shotokanwarrior

    shotokanwarrior I am the One

    That rules me out. I wear mine hacked short about jawline length. Like Carrie Anne Moss.

    'Deep scratching' is crap, my autistic brother does it all the time. It just ****es you off really.

    Also scratching is no go for me 'cause I bite my nails incessantly so they're about half the length they should be:) Looks slightly horrific actually, I'm trying to give it up.

    Where's Ubermint, he's going to like this one.
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Normally I recommend a smaller, more easily concealed pistol... like a snub .38 (hammerless)... I personally like the .45 but it's awful big to hide and is a real "handful" to deploy and use.
  8. E-Rocker

    E-Rocker Valued Member

    I'm not acquainted with a lot of gun-wielders, but the ones I know carry Glocks (9 mm, I think).
  9. Melanie

    Melanie Bend the rules somewhat.. Supporter

    Just so you all know - this is a self defence thread and not a gun thread :) ;)
  10. wrydolphin

    wrydolphin Pirates... yaarrrr Supporter

    Shotokan, the point was not to scratch for scratching's sake, but to do so for DNA.
    i. e. evidence. If he has been convicted, his DNA is generally on record somewhere. That way, even if you have fought him off, you can still press assault charges.

    You know, some of the stuff that people put out on this forum really isn't here just to offend you, and if you take a few seconds to look at it before you start reacting, you might find it makes sense.
  11. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    A weapon is only good if you have it in your hand, ready to use. :woo:

    As for the original post, those are good points about how to not make yourself a target of a violent crime. Somethings can't be avoided, but it is important to realize that anyone can be a target to a criminal. Even a real large and tough world class fighter can become a target if he pulls up to the cash machine in an expensive car, wearing a rolex at 4:00 AM in the morning in a deserted place.

    It is not like doing so means you are asking for it or that you deserve to be assaulted, but common sense should tell you the value of using caution.
  12. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    The original post is very good and the self defence ideas are really good. I think for women (especially in the US), weapons can be a concern. With the right permits and such, we can carry pistols (concealed) in the States... however many people immediately go for the largest, most powerful ones they can get. In my mind, for women's self defence, I recommend smaller, easy to conceal pistols like I recommended earlier. I recommend the "hammerless" variety to prevent the hammer from catching on clothing or straps. Consideration must also be paid to the type of holster... how concealable vs accessibility. Furthermore, women who choose to carry pistols for self defence need to get training and practice in deploying them under stress (and target practice). Training and awreness of how to prevent that weapon from being used against you is vital as well.

    In my opinion, guns have a very valid place in self defence.
  13. Melanie

    Melanie Bend the rules somewhat.. Supporter

    I wasn't knocking guns Thomas, see the smillies I left on the original post? :)

    Its just I didn't want the article to be seen as JUST guns. It had a few good points on there and I didn't want them ignored for the sake of something sexier to talk about like guns, that is all. :)
  14. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    You hear about training against attackers in padded suits. That kind of training is very valuable as you can attack all out and gain experience. However, to train such things as pinches and strikes, you also need a feedback loop to know if you are hitting the right points with enough force to actually be effective.

    I believe many people, including women do not have good access to a feedback loop. For example, the attacker wears just regular street clothes and a cup and eye protection. The defender and attacker mix it up with control not to maim each other, allowing all targets such as eyes, ears, nose, throat, groin, floating ribs, pressure points, etc. The defender hits the attacker hard and gets hit hard enough to hurt each other, up to appropriate levels for safety. In this case, the defender is the less experienced fighter so they are allowed to hit harder. If the defender hits hard but does not hurt the attacker, there is feedback from the attacker instructing the defender where and how to hit the vital points better. When the defender hits the vital points, it won't take as much force to hurt the attacker so control is used.

    This continues... after practice like this, the defender will learn how to hit the vital points better and also how to attack any target of opportunity including ears, eyes, throat, groin, ribs, knees, fingers, etc.

    Most people find that when first doing this type of training, they aren't nearly as good as they thought at hitting the right points, instead expending energy with strikes and grabs that anyone with size and a high tolerance to pain can just ignore.

    Also a note about biting. It can be used like a pinch attack to the same vital points. Try to practice biting through clothes, this reduces the chance of bleeding and such that could spread diseases.

    Whatever, learn to attack whatever targets are available while the attacker is transitioning to a different position on you. Learn to attack the vital points effectively and practice this hands on. There are no set rules.

    Huh? Not sure what that technique is that grabs the first two fingers. (edit: it could be a technique that bends the wrist back, that one requires you keep the attacker's arm extended and works better if you use two hands, one the grab the fingers and the other to control the hand. It is a good technique, just probably not one of my first choices against someone much bigger, stronger, and taller than you).

    If you can, grab their ring finger and middle finger and twist. Or grab their thumb and break. If they give you different fingers, grab those to open up their hand, and then their other fingers can be grabbed. But only do this if you have a transition point to work from, otherwise while you are working on their fingers, they just might punch you in the face.
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2005
  15. E-Rocker

    E-Rocker Valued Member

    Sorry I may have gotten slightly off-topic before . . .

    In regards to self-defense, I'll repeat something Guro Diana Rathborne taught me, specifically: if you're going to use any type of weapon for self defense, whether it's pepper spray or a gun or a cane or whatever, you need to train with it. Take a beginner's course in the use of your weapon. When you've passed that, take an intermediate course. When you've passed that take an advanced course. If you're walking around with a weapon you haven't trained with, you're more likely to have it taken from you & used against you than to be able to use it effectively.

    Diana's been teaching women's self defense for something like 10 years and has done a bunch of research on the subject (also holds several high-level MA instructorships), so I'm fairly confident she knows what she's talking about.
  16. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Couple things.

    One... the content of the first post is fake. It's been a long circulating, albeit in different forms, internet chain letter/urban legend. You can find a great breakdown of it here:

    For example, the entire thing about rapists not useing weapons is off. Weapons are used in aproximately 30% of rapes. (USJD, 1995) In fact, it doesn't make sense in context of the argument of the peice. Rapists don't have weapons but do carry sissors? Any cop would ID the sissor as a weapon.

    One of the big issues I have it it is it gets us back into the mindset of the evil, unknown rapist. Do those folks exist? Yes. But the vast majority of sexual assaults are carried out by aquaintances.

    As people in the Martial Arts and self defense business we need to make sure we're sure of information before we pass it around. Otherwise we're all contributing the myths. This isn't a nock Melanie. I've een burned by doing this a number of times and just have finally learned the lesson of checking first.

    - Matt
  17. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member

    You know I do remember reading this on snopes actually. (see my thread here

    Well considering my comments and the last 2 sentences on that site....

    .... guess I'm gonna get "whomped over someone's knee". :D ;)

    Not that I was serious about cutting my hair or wearing tons of clothing.

    Thanks Matt for setting the record straight :)
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2005
  18. Melanie

    Melanie Bend the rules somewhat.. Supporter

    Sorry Matt - I'll tell Zoltan my instructor that he's been burned too. He sent it to his clubs list.

    I'm closing this thread to reduce the misinformation and hopefully my embarrassment
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