For Under 16's Only - Do you believe that children should be awarded black belts?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by mattsylvester, May 3, 2007.

  1. mattsylvester

    mattsylvester One proud daddy!

    I don't want any adults replying to this one, I just want to see what the under-16s think of black belts being awarded to under-16s.

    1) Should they be awarded at all?
    2) If they are awarded, should they be 'cadet' black belts with the holder being required to retake their black belt, or even work through the ranks again (if their style has a children's syllabus) when they reach 16?
    3) Should they be awarded and the holder allowed to progress through the dans just like anyone else, even if they are only 7/8 when they get their first dan?

    Thanks,

    Please, no l33t or txt langauge, proper considered replies as well :)
     
  2. Patrick_baji

    Patrick_baji Valued Member

    I'm 16 and there are kids (aged 12 and 13?) in my club who have a 1st dan in Hapkido (style I do) and they can do the whole 1st dan syllabus. So I don't see why they can't have their black belts. Only thing is when they broke boards for their grading they broke junior boards. (half as thick as the ones adults have to break)
     
  3. tolchocker

    tolchocker Skittles!

    i feel that yes, under 16's should be allowed to be graded to black belt, but only if they can do so at the same intensity of an adult.

    Or perhaps if they are in a junior/intermediate class then a 'junior' or 'cadet' black belt could be awarded. With them re-taking each belt if in a junior class i.e under 12's, or just retaking the black belt grading if in an intermediate class (like myself, 12-16s) when they move up to the adult's class.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2007
  4. Gong_Sau_Rick

    Gong_Sau_Rick ultimate WSL nutrider

    This question depends on what does a black belt mean or should mean.
     
  5. Randel

    Randel Valued Member

    At my school the kids get a 'junior' black belt if they attain it whilst going to junior classes, once they join the adult classes they grade at green and white and grade up.. But still retain their black belt.
     
  6. karate princess

    karate princess Savvy??

    But that's the thing. Children cannot train at the same intensity as adults. You can't hit a child with the same force that you would hit a full grown man. Fitness level wise, yes, it should be the same intensity.

    Personally, I think that about 12 years old and above is acceptable for a black belt. But when I say black belt I mean only 1st dan. I think that 1st dan should be based alot on spirit as well as technique. If a child has the maturity to hold a 1st dan then why not let them have one? I know some exceptional 12 and 13 year olds that have black belts and they definatly deserve them!
     
  7. Verx

    Verx "Darkness Approaches"

    I believe they should. Howver, I think 1st dan should only be awarded to 14+ as puberty has kicked in (at least I hope so) as well as a sense of maturity and dedication.
     
  8. Agutrot-

    Agutrot- Jack of all Trades

    I don't care what color a kid's belt is as long as he doesn't slow down my training.
     
  9. Motz

    Motz Valued Member

    I'm 18, so it's bending the rules slightly, but I really don't consider myself an adult yet, what with still being in school...

    There's one particular junior black belt (TKD) in my area who certainly doesn't display the correct attitude to people in general. Without having seen him on the mat, I would still vouch for his being a bad example. Does this mean that no-one his age should get the belt? Nope. It means that he's either a good actor in the Dojang or that the standards need to be tighter.

    If junior black belts are consistently sub par, it shouldn't be a case of immediately shooting for the age issue. There are 14 year olds who act 40 and 40 year olds who act 14. Rather than creating an artificial boundary, is it not better to assess the characteristics which you require of Yudansha and incorporate them into the grading criteria? A teacher is quite within their rights to withhold rank or grading opportunities from a misbehaving student - writing a higher level of expectation into your Shodan requirements shouldn't surprise anyone and indeed encourages a higher level of quality across the board, not just for junior students.

    From a physical perspective, it should be made clear that the same standard is required of students of all ages and that they will only pass for that rank when they are proven to have attained such a standard. If the kid meets the technique / kata / randori / *other, system specific* requirements is emotionally mature and can take the physical punishment (but for goodness sake be careful with the poor thing ;) Common sense and safety first), then they've earnt the belt fair and square.

    That should all be taken with a pinch of Mudansha salt though - I'm a white belt in my current system :)
     
  10. Smokey13

    Smokey13 Valued Member

    I got my junior black belt when i was 14ish. At that time i can see why i only got that belt because my standard wasnt up to scratch. Being 16 now i can apply for a 1st dan but after moving interstate there is no requirement to resit my grading so all i need is my instructor to vouch for me.

    I think that a junior black belt system worked for me and i can see the benefits of giving students a realistic goal for them to work towards regardless of age. This allows for a student who hasnt fully grown/developed to be awarded a blackbelt and still have something to aim for after.

    I think progression through dan levels should only begin at the age 18 after a junior resits and gets a 1st dan. I simply think this because even though a younger student may have strong techniques they may lack the characteristics desired in a senior rank, and vice versa.

    On a side note... who wouldnt want to resit a nice tough grading when you reach 16 or 18?? Harder sparring and more fun breaks:p

    cheers
     
  11. tolchocker

    tolchocker Skittles!

    you're right, (well actually you can hit a child with the same force that you would a full grown man it's just considered to be morally wrong) but i feel that you haven't really earnt a belt unless you have done so in a 'full on' fashion. So in my honest opinion you shouldnt attempt a black belt grading unless you think you can take the blows. This is why i mentioned the junior blackbelt concept afterwards, but unfortunately my writing was a little too vague to make out a correlation between the two ideas. ah well, hopefully im writing my thoughts more coherantly now :)
     
  12. Lekta

    Lekta Super-Valued Power Member

    You must go beyond deciding whether to award black belts or whether to acknowledge a skill level on-par to what is to be expected of a black belt. If your focus in the martial arts is to achieve black belt and that's what your gym wants, then go ahead they should be able to hand out belts. But if you are asking whether a minor should be awarded a black belt because they are at that skill level, then the answer is easy.

    The point of many martial arts are to strengthen the mind and body. Now many believe that someone under the age of 18 would be weak and that their age would grant them the magic win. But in all honesty, a teenager who is giving 100% and fighting to the best of their capabilities is all you should expect. If a 15 year old has the skill level of a black belt, gives his academy and teachers 100% and represents what you want from an adult of the same level, then that's all that you need.

    Too often people think that someone under the age of 18 is weak and doesn't have some magic puberty power. Many think that a teenager could never stand up to an adult because he would be weak and frail. But from my experience, I have seen the exact opposite and also that exact stereotype.

    In my many years of TKD I saw a different amount of dedication from the adults than the teenagers. The teens were there to screw around and that's about all they did (I not excluded). The Head Instructor made his money off of parents buying belt testing fees and weekend sleepovers for their children at the academy (MJ wasnot there). At this school many teens had something called recommended black, a mixture between red and black that looked devilishly cool at the time. Of course, many made it to that point and flat out quit, because the rule was that you had to be 18 to receive a black belt.

    Now the polar opposite:

    At my MMA Academy the amount of dedication you see from teenagers are on-par, if not high than many of the adults. These teenagers are at the top of their game and most are only partly through puberty. These guys hang with the adults and tap them just like they tap us. The teenagers are either fueled by raging emotions, love the UFC or are just natural born killers. Something makes it possible for them to stand with guys who can dish out a beating, only to be beaten back harder by a large proportion of the teen prodigies. These guys fight for what it takes to improve and show just as much respect as the humble Aikido guy we have locked in a cage.

    Both of these examples show exactly what teenagers are and what they can choose to be. There should be no set-in-stone rule, It should be case by case. If someone under the age of 18 has shown that they have everything to be a black belt and always give 100% then why not?
     
  13. Patrick_baji

    Patrick_baji Valued Member

    what the hell? as if you're all 16 and under, save for that guy who said he was 18...oh and some people hit puberty quite a lot earlier than 14 mind you.
     
  14. karate princess

    karate princess Savvy??

    Erm... okay. Well, I'm only 17 by a couple of days.

    Also, there aren't many regular posters who are under 16.
     
  15. tolchocker

    tolchocker Skittles!

    im 15 :Angel: :D
     
  16. Rhea

    Rhea Laser tag = NOT MA... Supporter

    what about mental age? hehe
     
  17. tolchocker

    tolchocker Skittles!

    oh well in that case i share my birthday with emperor Nero :rolleyes:
     
  18. Lekta

    Lekta Super-Valued Power Member

    There are as many immature adults as their are mature teens. It's all up to one's self.
     
  19. NewLearner

    NewLearner Valued Member

    I got news for you, there are far, far more immature adults than there are mature teens. :D
     
  20. Sam

    Sam Absent-ish member

    When put into context I suppose thats true.
     

Share This Page