Flexibility plateau.....

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by Silentmonk, Aug 11, 2006.

  1. Silentmonk

    Silentmonk The Blue Donkster!!

    Ok on a personal quest for what is probably un realistic flexibility here guys. I know routines have been done and dusted millions of times in different sections of this forum. But if anyone has had this problem and over come it. Any advice would be greatly recieved. Feel free to pm with routines that you have used if they were succesful (i.e you have full or near full splits) or have given you great results. I am getting no nearer 180degrees and becoming a little demotivated.

    I do know its a time issue ( but on this note, how long has it took you to get where you are? )

    I do know i need to stretch regularly and i am doing this

    I am just coming off a rest period and about to hit it again hard so any advice for this training period would be greatfully received.

    PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!! :cry:
     
  2. KoreanWarrior

    KoreanWarrior Valued Member

    Somthing to think about.
    I hope this helps you.

    First if your job or lifestyle that has you performing tasks that tighten your legs, hamstrings ..etc you will have to counter with stretching for something near the time spent tightening. So say you do heavy lifting all day for 6 hours, then you may need 3 hours of stretching to counter the 6 of tightening. Maybe 6 hours? You need to realize how much tightening are you doing each day to counter it with stretching

    Second, don't sit in chairs, couches ..etc, always sit on the floor and you will find yourself stretching more, just from sitting on the floor you go into stretch mode. Not so if your in a chair or lying on a couch.



    KW
     
  3. Silentmonk

    Silentmonk The Blue Donkster!!

    Yep have been thinking about this one a lot lately and have started implementing it. Am even trying to work out ways of sleeping in positions where my body is in a more open position. Afterall your body gets used to being in one state right. So you have to train it that its ok to be in another one. I know its all about teaching the proprioceptors in your muscles that its ok to be at a certain length that they are safe and will not cause you injury. Also i do implement pnf and isometric stretching in my routines. Also i am aware i have some trigger points in muscles from old injuries that i need to sort but i don't think its solely these that are causing my plateau. :(

    Cool at least thats on right lines then. :)
     
  4. KoreanWarrior

    KoreanWarrior Valued Member

    Yes injuries are a major holdup.

    Another thing that loosens me up is hyung done low long and slow. You're stretching the muscles under a load which really seems to increase flexibility of the hamstrings. I have also noticed people may have really good front kick stretch but their side kick is half the stretch of their front.

    So you want to work you worst position the most. I think the side stretch are the abductor muscles and the front is the hamstrings.

    Stretching on the floor is #1

    Stretching standing leg on a bar (ballet style) #2

    Partner stretching standing against a wall and sitting is the #3

    Hyung stretching and or stances #4

    Kicking #5 easy to injure yourself with kicking stretches.

    Everyone chime in.
     
  5. ember

    ember Valued Member

    Check out the Health and Fitness forum, and run a search. I think they even have a sticky in one of their subforums with lots of links.

    I can't do the splits yet either, though for sides, I've gotten lots better.
     
  6. mr shoosh

    mr shoosh Valued Member

    monk

    when u stretch start with a dynamic stretch first thing in morning that resetts the nervous regulation of the muscle and helps u maintain flexability through out the day

    i.e leg swings to the front 2-3 sets of 12 reps primary muscle hamstrings

    then leg swings out to the side in straight motion primary muscles abductor and adductor,.
    again same reps and sets
    then leg swings away from ur body as u face the wall
    next ur stretching programe has to be regular focused and progressive, fastest way of achieveing side splits is dynamic startches but can also be bad for injuries if u dnt condition right for this type stretch

    ie side splits as low as is comfrotable then pull in against the stretch as if u were trying to get up with out ur hands hold for 20 secs doing five sets three times a week

    dnt stretch front splits and side splits on same day focus side splits one day then front on ur next training day.

    so a good example would be;

    mon dynamic warm up morning then isometrics later that night eitheer side or front
    tue dynamic in the morning then passive stretch at night(passive would be like when u strech sitting on ground with light pressure on muscle
    wed rest then repeat the cycle hope thats of help
     
  7. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff Valued Member

    Try some yoga classes? I'll go to an Iyengar style yoga class once a week and practice at home on my own other days. It tends to encourage flexibility and develop muscles in a completely different way than Kuk Sool, though I think that practice of each helps the other.
     
  8. ember

    ember Valued Member

    I'll second that!!! Have you noted the similarity between Mon Pohl Gi and some of the yoga poses (bow, cobra, etc.)?

    I've got some videos & books that I use at home. I did a few classes when I had a gym membership, but I don't like the class times at my current fitness center.

    I don't know that I would consider it a completely different way. I definitely agree that it's complementary.
     
  9. JSun

    JSun Valued Member

    There are similarities, but I feel like the stretching done during Mon Pohl Gi is rushed. In my wushu class, we'd stretch for 45 minutes and then work on forms for 45 minutes. Mon Pohl Gi only lasts 15 minutes at our dojang. I don't think we hold the postures while stretching in Kuk Sool for long enough. We should hold each stretch for 5 slow breaths, not a quick count to five. I generally arrive to class a good 20-30 minutes early and stretch to the side of the floor. I'm afraid I'll pull something if I don't.
     
  10. AirNick

    AirNick Valued Member

    A lot of stretching books and guides nowadays say that you shouldn't do static stretches before training, only dynamics and that statics/isometrics should be done afterwards. What do people think of this?

    Personally I feel that dynamics are generally all I need before training.
     
  11. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff Valued Member

    Oh! I just realized that Mon Pohl Gi = Warm-up. Had never heard that term for it. But yes, that was one of the first things I noticed when I was observing a Kuk Sool class prior to joining. Poses I can think of that are in the warm-up: Halasana (Plough), Cobra, Urdhva Dhanurasana (Upward-Facing Bow), Child's Pose, Salabhasana (Locust). Not sure what else.

    Mmm, I guess I was mostly thinking about how Kuk Sool involves staying in a stretch (or pose, or stance, or whatever) for a short period of time. Whereas at least in Iyengar style yoga you'll frequently end up staying in a pose for longer period of time. Perhaps a minute for active poses, five minutes for inversions (e.g. headstand, shoulderstand), and even longer for restorative poses. Supta Baddha Konasana is one pose that I'll frequently stay in for 10-15 minutes, both because it's incredibly relaxing (I typically practice yoga immediately before bed, since I tend towards insomnia otherwise) and because it works on groin flexibility at the same time.

    Note that there are styles of yoga for which this would not be true, since they involve flowing from pose to pose between breaths. This includes Ashtanga, Bikram, and "Power" yoga. Those styles would actually be somewhat akin to doing Kuk Sool forms, since it's a set sequence of poses.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2006
  12. ember

    ember Valued Member

    Ours too. When I'm leading it, I actually pace it to last about that long... although the kids classes may be cut to 10 minutes. Since we only have 1 hour for class, this seems to be enough to let me do what I need to do without getting injured.

    Sometimes right after mon pohl gi there'll be additional warmup, like kicking drills.

    However, I have noticed that I seem to have better classes (lower stances, better focus) on Tuesday-Thursdays, after I've been at the dojang for 2 hours and through Mon Pohl Gi at least twice, sometimes three times. Monday-Wednesdays, my class is currently right after work, I'm a little stiffer & tenser.

    Well, actually, you can stay in Kuk Sool stretches, stances, poses for a long period of time. I've usually seen stance training done more at the intermediate and advanced classes rather than beginner.

    PSBN once asked our class how long Mon Pohl Gi should take if you do it at home. IIRC, the minimum was 30 minutes. The maximum? All day, if you have that kind of time.

    It may depend on who's leading it. I usually count slow, though I suppose it's only about 2-3 slow breaths.
     
  13. JSun

    JSun Valued Member

    I'll generally start by jumping rope 5-10 minutes to get warmed up. Then I'll roll into light static stretches before jumping into 2-3 10 rep sets of dynamic stretches. Then I'll hit the static stretches again before starting Mohm Pul Ki. I'm definitely a proponent of static stretching after training. I'm a distance runner, so it's something I've been doing for years. It really helps keep me from being sore the next day or two if I really put a whipping on myself when working out.

    I'm not naturally limber, so I don't think just dynamic stretches work as well for me by themselves, but they're an important part of my warm up regimen.
     
  14. Silentmonk

    Silentmonk The Blue Donkster!!

    Thankyou SBN Don, thats taken on board, have been trying to do a couple of things i shouldn't have on your list. Makes a lot of sense, think i may have been Overtraining muscles in attempt to get there quicker hence the stop in progress. :D oops. Hehe.

    Help is most appreciated :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2006
  15. Silentmonk

    Silentmonk The Blue Donkster!!

    Oh yoga is something else i have considered guys. I live in the sticks tho and as yet haven't been able to find a GOOD class on a night I haven't got a Kuk Sool class or training. But if I do I will be adding that to my regime. :)
     
  16. Dubu

    Dubu Valued Member

    I agree although i only just read about this recently. There are some muscles and joints that are quite hard to stretch dynamically ive noticed. At KSW Livingston we're always encouraged to really stretch our gluts for good kicking technique - problem is i cant seem to find any dynamic stretches for my glutes no matter how hard i try. Anyone know any movements i can use for them?
     
  17. mr shoosh

    mr shoosh Valued Member

    dnt worry ur glutes are used when u do a dynamic warm up all the time and wont affect ur performance in kicks as much as stretching the core martial arts muscles such as hamstring, lower back,abductor and adductor and hip flexor befor u stress glutes ur kicks would need to be nearly vertical in the front plane befor u require gr8 flexability out of them yes they do work but not to the extent the hamstrings ect do in front side kicks ect.
     
  18. ember

    ember Valued Member

    Yoga

    Just one other thing on yoga & ma... You never know when somebody might just decide to have you do down dog / up dog / plank variants in a test. :cool: At least he kept his promise, no pushups that time.
     
  19. Grippereeno

    Grippereeno New Member

    I wrote a little article type thing on flexibility training using scientific studies a few months ago and handed it to a few people who were interested in our class. I dont have it anymore but the gist of it was incorporate static, dynamic, ballistic and PNF type stretching in regimes designed to improve flexibility. Stretch after other training sessions i.e. aerobic sessions as when muscles are thouroughly warmed and begin to cool thats when they are most pliable. Do this type of training more than 3 times a week and unfortunaltely there are plenty of restrictions to a persons flexibility (neural, musculotendon) and factors such as age, sex and pelvic position all play a part.
     
  20. mr shoosh

    mr shoosh Valued Member

    hey grip

    that would make good reading i have wrote couple flexabilty papers and few articals what u thing tom kurtz stuff i think he got good methods for front side martial arts specific stuff
     

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