First time BJJ

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by Trewornan, Dec 2, 2013.

  1. righty

    righty Valued Member

    Obviously you will have to see it. There too much crap out there these days, but a jack of all trades arts certainly doesn't have a monopoly on crap.

    Groundwork done well is a generalist art should still include what makes BJJ effective as you say "base, posture, timing". The main thing you may lack is the sheer time spent on the ground practicing and drilling it because you are training other things as well. That and less of a range of techniques, again limited simply by time.
  2. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    I think that the sports side of BJJ has been and is continuing to take over its self-defense aspect like it did in Judo. Emphases created by external needs and demands are taking the art in a specialized direction. I'll leave the rest out. I've already said plenty about me and this isn't a Greg1075 bio thread. :)
  3. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    I'm talking specifically about sports BJJ here, not boxing or any other which would need to be examined separately. It's not just fancy armbars and submissions that don't carry over from sports bjj but certain concepts like defensive arm positioning or types of escapes that leave major target areas wide open. But the most glaring of all remains the too great emphasis put on ground fighting (and not *just* ground fighting). Great in some contexts, horrible idea in others.

    I agree wholeheartedly with this:

  4. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

  5. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    I'm not going to dignify that video by playing it. That you would post it either shows that you have no idea about bjj or worse.

    It is time to stop with the internet and the theory and get yourself training at a good gym.
  6. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Can't believe you posted that. You're sick!
  7. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Couldn't you find a video of ANYONE ELSE discussing this issue. That way, you wouldn't look like a scumbag. Seriously.
  8. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    Clearly given the responses, there is a backstory here that I was unaware of. I just did a quick search and found out about what happened. I apologize that the posting was offensive as that was not at all my intention. All I meant is that I agree with the contention that arts are good for what they were created for and that BJJ is ineffective in some situations. No more, no less. Again, I apologize if I offended anyone.
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    FWIW Lloyd being an absolutely worthless human being does not detract from the point he is making -or you are making - it's just hard to watch that piece of crap in a video

    A bit like Gary Glitter talking about pop can't get past his personal life to listen to anything else
  10. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Well, as I said I wouldn't watch it so I don't know his point.

    If I create an art that focused purely on attacking people from a distance of no less than 20 yards using the power of my flatulence would it be useful in a self defense situation? Is it good for what it was created for? Absolutely. Does that mean anything? Nope.

    The point I am making is that it is not the art, or its rules, or its purpose - it is the training method that counts, and you actually get better training in a sporting environment.

    It's the pressure that counts, the risk of injury, the seriousness of this 'sport' that makes it lethal - there are a billion arts that people who can't handle that make up and say is 'real' and 'for the street' it isn't, it is just that they can't handle training at that level.

    Now, I have seen very high level BJJ teaching more of a SD type class - but never for other very high level BJJ people. It is more of a "let's do something for the people who aren't actually training hard yet to give them some hope'.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  11. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    I'd rather not let him talk, I feel he has an insidious nature that once you start listening to very pertinent things he may have to offer he will fold in manipulation and things that you don't want to be a part of. Best to tune out and let him fade away.
  12. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    mattt - I see your point and I agree. Realism is paramount and pressure is the yardstick used to gauge what works, what doesn't, how effective your techniques and your technique (if that makes sense) are etc. I also totally agree that it is one of BJJ's and some other sports disciplines' strengths. I have no problem admitting that my own JJJ's training method was not so good in that area and am very aware that because of that and the fact our groundwork was also so cursory; I am no better than a 1 yr BJJ white belt. The training method is to blame for sure but the fact that the contexts are very different is also a big factor. I'm all for realistic training and shedding off what doesn't work. That's why I wanted to cross train for quite some time. Happy to be doing BJJ, CSW and JKD now. Love CSW btw. Great stuff.

    As for Irvin, if you care to know his point is that all arts are good for what they were created for, then he recalls a home invasion incident when he had to disarm a guy. His BJJ (along with most of arts he's studied over the years) didn't help him. Sure the guy seems to be worthless of many levels but like Hannibal said that doesn't detract from the points he's making though I understand you might be turned entirely turned off by him given his rep.

    I find your point about high level BJJ teaching SD type class not for other very high level BJJ people interesting. Was that ground SD stuff only or did that include GJJ standup stuff as well?
  13. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Yeah, whatever about Irvin, I don't believe a word that comes out his mouth.

    The SD I saw wasn't GJJ per se since my school doesn't do that, but it was standup, from a punch etc. Taught in a Gi class.

    I really find it hard to differentiate though, since we get a lot of MMA and to me, that is more like the SD you are talking about. SD to me is not about fighting, it is about awareness, color codes, laws. The physical aspect of a street encounter I would rather have developed from hard training in a sporting environment.
  14. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    The point I was making about BJJ going the way of Judo in terms of sport taking over the SD aspect:

    Starts around the 2:00 mark but the whole speech is great.
  15. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Keith owen also promoted ari bolden to brownbelt, which gives his opinion much much less weight.

    I do know what your getting at, which is why gyms that train for a variety of rulesets tend to produce stronger fighters.

    But its really not that big an issue.
  16. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    i don't think a valid point. a purely sport-trained judoka or bjj player will crush most people on the planet.
  17. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    [ame=""]Ari Bolden Knazan: Gracie Jiu Jitsu Brown Belt Exam - YouTube[/ame]
  18. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    How so? Promoting Bolden doesn't detract from Owen's point. It's an opinion about sport vs SD BJJ, not talent evaluation. People need to start arguing the points instead of arguing the people making them.

    Last edited: Jan 25, 2014
  19. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    Sport taking over the SD aspect of BJJ was the point in itself, not an argument to prove that sport-trained athletes aren't capable to defend themselves.
  20. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    It does if his example is the sd viewpoint.

    The fact you posted his video is an appeal to authority, Im discussing his own integrity.

    The SD difference is mostly marketing, hence why these two reprobates have used it.

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