Finding a place.

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Kframe, Sep 26, 2015.

  1. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    Sigh... The recent conversation regarding x blocks has made me think. I don't know if I will be able to find a unarmed or mixed art I can do. Sure I am doing HEMA and it is fun, but totally useless for anything other then enjoyment. I plan on staying In HEMA as I like it.

    However, I just cant find a unarmed art I can do and live with.. I did the mma thing and honestly the only thing I liked was the sparring. Of course I don't know if it was a good mma school, but it left a bad taste in my mouth.

    Tried KKW TKD, had loads of fun with the foot fencing, and the drills for sparring. Yet for the same reasons I voiced in the x block thread, I don't trust the Traditional training aspects. Doing kata with out application is time waste. Doing lunge punching step sparring is pointless, with techniques you wont use in sparring or anywhere else.

    Same issues with the TSD school, add in, no contact sparring, and the unreasonable "defenses" as shown in the CS kim video I posted in that thread.

    The rest of the schools around here are all mcdojo. Sure there is the Hapkido school here, yet they do all there techniques against one step thrown punch's, so that is pointless.

    I did like the wing chun/FMA up north, but 3 issues face it. One it interferes time wise with my Hema, 2 no video proof of Wing chun working under pressure.. 3. Would cost me double the cost of tuition to go there, as the distance would cost me an additional $50 a week in gas.

    So sure, yes before you say it, I am being to picky. I want to much I get that. But I don't want to do nonsense either.

    So guys, what do I do. I need to do something but time is wasting. I Just find it so hard to pull the trigger on one place or another. Sure Hema is cool and stabbing people with 4 foot swords even cooler, but that's just for fun.

    I need something serious, something I can trust.

    Edit to add. My big issue is, I don't trust any of it.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015
  2. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I am sorry kframe, but if you want an honest answer, it seems to me like you are always finding reasons (excuses) to not do this or that school or style.

    I find it hard to believe NO MA is suitable whatsoever. If you don't have a perfect school, find one that offers 80% of what you need. It beats the 0% you have when not training.

    School with - oh even say 50% of what you want> sitting around.

    Only you can pull the trigger and start training. You can ask for advice, but ultimately- it comes down to you and you alone. If you want to train MA's bad enough, you will find a way. If you don't, it is ok- but be honest with yourself over it.

    If you choose HEMA over the other things you want- that is fine. But that is a CHOICE. This isn't a "can't" this is a "I chose not to." If you CHOOSE not to spend extra money, that is a choice too.
  3. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    I agree it is a excuse, its just, I see bovine excrement everywhere.

    I don't even know what I want any more.. I hated the mma stand up. All we did was spar, we barely did any drills and I had to go to youtube and supplement at another school to figure out defenses.

    I just want usefull, something I can feel guilt free about doing.

    Edit. Look I know It all looks like excuses and it likely is. I call it the age of Martial Mistrust, I am honestly not sure how I got here.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015
  4. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    If you do HEMA in a full contact manner, then you might get a lot out of boxing. I do primarily olympic fencing and some HEMA on the side (smallsword mostly, but a bit of Fiore Longsword too) and quite frankly if you are looking for the same sort of sparring mindset that you get from swordsmanship, (patiently looking for openings, manipulating timing distance and judgement), then Boxing has it in spades and more. Also its training methodology and pad drilling has parralells with swordplay, and if nothing ,else Gentleman Jackson and Domenico Angelo, the foremost Boxing and Fencing Instructors the 17th Centuary had their establishments right next door to each other (there was also a Bordello on the same street but thats another story)

    The body mechanics of course are VERY different. In fencing and HEMA you generate explosive power to cover distance, in Boxing its to augment your punches.

    It may not have the mysticism but its a solid discipline
  5. pseudo

    pseudo Padawan

    Meh. Sounds like you face a similar problem to mine... in a sense I guess. Aaradia's advice is good. Pick something and have fun with it. Even if it's not the bomb you will still develop rhythm, reflex, and a co-ordination. Go test your skill sets at the MMA gym once in a while, see if you can make it work if not how can you make it work. Travel to seminars once in a while to learn and train in something you want to learn.
  6. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    I thought about listing everything I want in a art but that would be silly.

    Is it possible to be asking to much?
  7. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    I don't know what kind of HEMA you do, but assuming it's early-period centric, the best adjunct is a wrestling-based art. HS 3227a states that "all fencing comes from wrestling". My judo studies have helped my fencing through general body awareness and fitness, not to mention my medieval grappling studies. Well worth what I've put into it.

    Other good choices are boxing for body awareness and the fact that it's super fun, and a modern combatives art since the mindset (and some of the techniques) is similar to the nastier aspects of the medieval unarmed manuals.
  8. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    Actually, I am doing CapoFerro. We will be doing German cut and thrust(Meyer) soon as I can get enough for a CT sword and some other protective gear.. They go hard here.

    I am enjoying the heck out of CF though.
  9. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    Still do the wrasslin'. The tactile feedback you develop translates directly into sensing blade engagements, which rapier has a lot of. The best martial artists I know are all good grapplers.

    Also, good choice with Capoferro. I hear he's excellent for those starting out with the weapon.

    Meyer is a hell of a lot of fun. I'm a big Dussack fan, though my period of interest is earlier than Meyer by a hundred years.
  10. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    As a Traditional Chinese martial artist I Totally agree with the above post.

    Doing kata without application is a complete waste of time. It is a literately meaningless activity. A good traditional school will always work on technique and application as well as kata.

    With the exception of a few karate guys I have met who do it with Knock out force Lunge step sparing is pointless for practical fighting.

    However I do not agree that what you describe is the way that traditional arts should be practiced. Traditional arts are about hitting each other hard and fighting against resistance. Of coarse you can't do that all the time because you beak. Even boxers limit the amount of time they spend trading full power strikes. But if applications are not pressure tested in some way during training they are just empty movements.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015
  11. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    If you keep making excuses then you'll never enjoy any of it. You always have the option to stick to HEMA stuff. You don't have to train in a h2h art :)
  12. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter


    Find a gym. Turn up.
  13. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    What he said
  14. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon


    Kinda sorta fits in with your HEMA.

    I can totally relate to what your saying about the nonsense in MA, it is very off putting for me to.
  15. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    Well at first my preference was for Liechtenauer or Fiore, but they were not available here. However I accidentally found this guy who has loads of experience in Meyer and Capoferro and decided to try it out. I was Leary of Rapier at first as I thought it a wussy weapon.. Not any more. I was and still am surprised at the number of cuts in the system. Not to mention how heavy they are as weapons. (we don't use foils, but swords nearly 3lbs)

    I will look up and see if my old boxing school is still around. I am to old to compete but maybe I can have some fun with it.

    Wresting is a great idea, as I plan on getting into the new Cut and Thrust with Grappling competition that is being experimented with right now. My Teacher is one of the few people authorized to do it for demos right now.

    One thing is for certain, Hema is here to stay, I love it to much. Now its just a matter of finding a art around the hema times, that I can trust.

    Thanks for the advice guys.
  16. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Forgot to mention....

    Why not list what you want? I don't think it's silly at all.

    Are you asking to much? Nope. It's your time and money and you want what's best for you....or what you think is best for you. Nothing wrong with that. Whether what you want exists is another thing though.

    I went through the same thing many years ago for similar reasons. I spent time and money going to practically every club I could find and get to. I was basicly looking for MMA but this was before it was big, I went to JKD and that ticked most of the boxes. I was kinda happy when the UFC got big.
  17. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    LOL well, I want TKD's kicks, mma's grappling, and Jkd/kali.. That is what I want. However that is unrealistic I think. As that would require 3 different club memberships.

    So sure I could do the JKD thing, though I don't know how well they kick, or even if they are as good as MT kickers. I would have to quit one day of hema to do it.

    I guess that is the problem. To do what I want to do, I have to do less of hema.
  18. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Couldn't you just learn it all from youtube ;)

    Does the JKD club do a lot of grappling? I've trained in a couple and one concentrated heavily on grappling. It was JKDC though. But I guess that would eat into your HEMA time.

    Could you do the JKD as a private? Then you could possibly have it at a time that wouldn't mess up your HEMA time.
  19. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    From what I see on the schedule they have a dedicated time slot on Saturdays for grappling.

    In the end, I may just have to give up some hema time. That is the hardest part. Which was why I was looking at TMA's near me, as most of them trained on days that didn't conflict with hema.

    I may have to just pick one or the other.
  20. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    JKD/Kali... Is it the trapping aspect you are looking for?

    Also you may want to divide your needs:

    1) pure self defence -


    2) something that dovetails with your HEMA work.

    I mentioned boxing earlier on because even if you move or take a break you can still practice some of the core skills on a boxing bag. Ive been abroad for 3 weeks with some relatives and sick and tired of no activity, found a local gym with a bag put a timer on and practiced. Clearly having a pad holder or a live sparring partner too is optimal but life gets in the way.

    As for rapier work you may want a grappling skill set that emphasise sweeps and takedowns (if my hazy memory of his manual is correct) have you considered Judo? Plenty of opportunity to use when you get corp and corps at HEMA (being at the receiving end of one during an arming sword and buckler session)
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015

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