Fighter vs. Artist

Can you point to examples of the above people doing what they say they can?

With Terry O'Neill his exploits are pretty legendary and well documented. Personally I can;t say the same about the others but then again I dont know.

How can masters claim to be teaching effective reliable fighting (that's what martial arts is after all) and not be able to demonstarate examples of this through either themselves of their students???

There's plenty of situations in life where you wouldn;t let someone with theoretical knowledge only teach a subject.

PS - If this somes accross as confrontational I don't mean it to....apologies in advance

 

Can you point me to any situations where the people I mentioned have made claims exceeding their abilities?

Shame on you. Hee Il Cho and Park Jung Tae are TKD legends!

They should maybe stop teaching once they become too old to fight?
You're talking about 'Masters' right?

Absolutely.

 

<<<Can you point me to any situations where the people I mentioned have made claims exceeding their abilities?>>>

My point is that no one knows their abilities...they seem a closely guarded secret!


<<<They should maybe stop teaching once they become too old to fight? You're talking about 'Masters' right?>>>

Did you miss the bit where I mentioned their students?


Anyway I don't want to take this off track...just wanted to answer your points Andy

 

Ah, it's a conspiracy.

No, so you feel that all 'Masters' should ask their students to get into fights to prove their validity?

 

If a person wants to make claims about your martial art being effective self defence then yes....

Would you trust a surgeon if there was no record of him ever performing an operation? Would you trust them to teach the next generation of surgeons ?

 

So name these people, these specific Masters and students you refer to.

Otherwise you are only making claims yourself.

 

I think one thing that has come positive out of the MMA circuit

Is that it has shown flaws in many systems and a lot of schools are taking the initative and adding key elements to these styles when they have been missing before, many Ninjitsu schools doing more gound work, TKD schools learning throws etc.

Many of us are now aware of the need perhaps to touch on ground fighting even if its just to be able to fight your way back to your feet without getting kicked in the head - which imo is good.

To me the best thing to come out of MMA is the above point and also the chance for people to see what many people have wanted to see (me included) what would happen if a Judo player and a Karate student went head to head. Obviously each style is dependant on the instructor but many problem area's were indicated with all styles when put into this enviroment and its given people the chance to evolve and advance.

Also there is no one style now dominating MMA it is just really down to your training as all the great BJJ people have been beat as have Shootfighters etc so its just down to you and your training and ability now and less of your style.

 

Re: I think one thing that has come positive out of the MMA circuit

Absolutely.

 

So name these people, these specific Masters and students you refer to.

Could you clarify what you mean by that?

 

LOL.

No, I don't think I could make that any clearer.

 

OK but right now I'm not really in a postition to do that...

so answer me this......how many masters would say their martialart is not suitable for self defence?

 

Great post Kwan. I hope I didn't mean to suggest that people who practice the "-do"/"Arts" systems don't need to be able to fight. That wasn't my intention. In fact one way I have seen Kung Fu defined is as "skill that transcends mere surface beauty." Clearly, there needs to be substance beneath the flash. An that skill needs to be both in the Martial and in the Art.

Personally, that's a problem that I see with "Chinese Governement" Wu Shu. Sure there's skill there, but it's acrobatic, not martial.

And to your point, all of the great martial philosophers were tested warriors who through their perfection of fighting found the "unversial keys" to mastery/creativity. And with those keys they could then unlock other disciplines without traditional training in those fields.

- Matt

 

When will you be?

If it's statistics you want, I can't say that I'm qualified to comment on that, but then, who is?

 

When I'm not at work!!! Able to spend a litle time trawling websites for information stating what you know to be obvious....

isn't this getting a litlte off topic btw?

 

Cool,

The discussions given you a nice focussed topic for a new thread.

Suggested Titles;

"Frauds, Cheats & Liars named"

"Beware, Fraud Fu"

"What's wrong with TMA by me"

 

I would have thought "please alert the trades decriptions act enforcers about the following people" would have been more appropriate...

...believe me I'm not trying to stir the poo, despite the perception

 

Hi trying go with stump

I know some real good fighters and they are fun to watch. But I have also seen fighters wich are a level beond us mear mortals and they look like artists even thou they are doing sport fighting.

Regards Kerling
ps. I know I forgot to bash someone

 

A skilled fighter is an artist, as his skills are his 'art'.

 

Aravi,

What about vice versa:

Does a skilled artist a good fighter make?