Fear of getting hurt badly in Kickboxing-is Judo/Wrestling more my style?

Discussion in 'Kickboxing' started by ronki23, Mar 22, 2011.

  1. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    I've been to THREE different clubs-it's not the coaching!!! I also told you the titles they won in.

    WAKO is the highest standard there is apart from K-1 or UFC/Strikeforce/Dream :/

    They've all done big competitions- WAKO,WKA,ISKA and WPKA-they haven't won in all of them but they've still won titles.
    BKFA is British Kung Fu association and ICMAC is International Chinese Martial Arts Association
    I agree IMAO are the local ones but I still don't win in that either!!!

    EDIT: I've bought this up on a facebook status update before and everyone scolded me saying "You're in no position to comment,stop overanalysing,blah blah" I agree there is no regulation in this sport but they're TRYING with British Kickboxing Council. I also don't even want to be a pro fighter-just want to enter/win competition to know my skills are working under pressure
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2011
  2. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    By turning away are you exposing other vital targets like giving your back to the opponent?

    How much knife and weapons training have you done? If your opponent had a knife would you be reacting in the same way?

    Oh and how is your eye sight?
  3. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    Little/no weapon training except a 4 hour session of which 20 minutes was knife defence. I've only recently started Ju Jitsu and before, it that session was on a weapons day last year
  4. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    Mate.... WAKO are NOT a respected association. ISKA are. WKA are. but not WAKO. They're what's known in the fight game as "mickey mouse" belts. Meaning they're not real titles. What makes a title worth having is WHO you have to fight to get it. It's also worthwhile noting whether or not it's amateur. Which WAKO usually is. WAKO-PRO, as I said earlier, is different. You don't have to take my word for it but I know the UK fight scene and there are plenty of idiots running around with mickey mouse titles churning out people for crappy run amateur shows.

    You've been to 3 different gyms and they all train people for semi contact? Don't sound like the consistant standard of gyms required in britain to produce FC fighters.
  5. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    Neither does it sound professional (in any sense of the word) when you get scolded for inquiring about their titles.
  6. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    You ever considered that you aren't exactly cut out for your passtime. The truth is that martial arts aren't for everyone. While many people are physically capable, it is equality important to cope mentally.
    To be honest, you're probably a perfectly normal mentally healthy human being and as such are not particularly suitable for a martial arts career.

    The Bear.
  7. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    The above interests me-I always thought WAKO was the best of the best. Anyway, Gordon Mitchell won a handful of WKA titles as well as WAKO-my ex coach and current coach were taught by him.He toots WAKOs horn-he's actually good friends with Nathan Lewis.

    I always thought WAKO was biggest since they run the Addidas CIMAC Superleagues and are part of the GAISF-the committee that recognises the awarding body for sport.

    All my clubs train for semi and light contact but my old club has also started up MMA training. They do have 'fight nights' of Western Kickboxing/no leg kicks or knees/elbows every other month as well-those ARE full contact and a few of them train for it but sparring is still light contact for those who haven't got that balls to do it and still turn up.

    Plus as I said, I don't want to be a pro fighter, just someone who's skills work in under-pressure situations and that can take hits.
  8. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    I can't quit until I try Judo competitions out-Judo is known as the 'Gentle' way and Gracie Ju Jitsu was made for the smaller,weaker opponent. I do Japanese Ju Jitsu which helps with self defence but I need to compete to get better-since few Ju Jitsu competitions exist I need to do Judo/Wrestling BJJ competitions. I seem to do better in pointfighting than continuos so I need to combine the pointfighting with some sort of grappling art since my continuos stand up sucks balls.
  9. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    The thing about training for competition, it is in training for whatever it takes to win. Sometimes this means going outside the box and training in unconventional ways to give you the edge.

    If you gear up with face protection (which you already have) then have your sparring partner come at you with a training knife, you just might find something you are missing in your training. One of our first Muay Thai students to enter into competition Muay Thai, before a match, I did some training with him just coming at him with a training knife and all he was supposed to do was get out of the way and counter attack me. We got to the point where he only had to move inches to avoid the knife and instantly counter attacked me. I'm not saying this was weapons training, I'm saying we used a weapon as a training prop to get the desired results. He won his match and told me after that thanks and everything was like how I told him it would be like.

    However, your coach has final say. You got to be on the same page as far as training goes. So only take what I say as ideas and not telling you what to do.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2011
  10. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    Yeah I know that you don't want to be a pro fighter but there's still a BIG distinction between an amateur FC fighter and a semi-contact "fighter". And like I say, most of the decent gyms don't even waste their time training people for semi-contact because it has zero attributes which benefit a full contact fighter. That's why I say it sounds like the gyms themselves may be part of the problem.

    Don't forget that the first thing many coaches do is convince you of how awesome they are etc. It's the only reason I can fathom why some people still train with AIMAA TKD and organisations like that. Terrible coaching - but they claim to be the deadly and they'll be really convincing if you let them.
  11. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    That could be a bit harsh. We had one fighter who came in to a competition having cross-trained in BJJ for a few months. This was a full contact karate competition and we could see that the cross-training had hurt him (the same cross-training in BJJ I was doing, but I wasn't competing). He obviously wasn't as prepared as he could have been and at one point I saw some obvious grappling moves he attempted. It is not that BJJ is bad, to the contrary, I feel it is very good training, the problem was the fighter was being pulled in many directions internally.

    Semi-contact karate training and kickboxing training BOTH for competition seems to me to be a situation for the OP being pulled in many directions. Getting kicked and punched in the face, for example, in kickboxing is not a problem and you learn to move and keep your hands up. Semi-contact karate competition teaches you to keep your hands down... not a good combination of training goals.
  12. Willsy

    Willsy 'Ello love

    People experienced in these arts have told you, you will get hurt. Despite the word meaning "gentle way", there's not very much gentle about it. Take a look at some competition and see what you think. It's a far cry from JJJ.
  13. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    Then what do I do? No MMA clubs here worth going to-well there are 3/4 but I can't go to any

    1. Goshin Ju Jitsu Ryu- My Ju Jitsu teacher's ex-prized student set up MMA club. He has 1st Dan in Tenjin Shinyo Ryu and wanted higher-Sensei said no so he goes and gets 5th Dan from another organisation and tries to take over in class so Sensei kicks him out.
    Won't go because he upset Sensei and the fact on of his students had a big arguement with my ex kickboxing teacher/was supposed to fight and pulled out the night before AND was undecided.

    2. Team Falcons (Gordon Mitchell) and my ex club:- the former I won't go to because they think they're better than everyone else and don't respect their opponents; the latter I won't go to because that chapter of my life is over. Not to mention both are semi and light contact clubs as well.

    3. Another club- people I don't really like go there-I don't hate them but I don't want to know them since they're cocky gentlefolk.

    Considering club 1 is using Japanese Ju Jitsu as its base (which I already do) and clubs in #2 are places I don't want to go, there are no places for MMA.

    My plan is this: do 3 to 4 semi contact/light continuos competitions until April/May and see how they go and THEN go back to Japanese Ju Jitsu-this summer I can study some Judo for the randori/can use the throws from Ju Jitsu. Will also try wrestling for the experience this summer.

    I have no clubs to combine my striking and grappling except the Ju Jitsu club and that has no sparring/randori. Should I just switch over to Ju Jitsu full time after competing in the summer?
    ^the Ju Jitsu club has no sparring but they do demonstrate the throws and locks. From time-to-time we do randori.

    EDIT: If sport karate is my strength, is Judo the best art to combine it with e.g.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvWUC4SKlNg"]YouTube - judo vs karate[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAg3rHvLYVQ"]YouTube - Lyoto Machida Tribute[The Kill][/ame]
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2011
  14. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Thats pretty normal. In sparring when I'm up against someone I know who is way above my league and I get hit with a good shot (say...to my eye). Then I naturally get over protective and I start to 'flinch' again when I see the right hand that caused the shot.

    Turning your head is not good. In my experience, if I see you turning your head when I do a straight, I'll follow up with a hook attack. Maybe even a roundkick, contacting with your face.
    Generally, keeping your hands up and let your shoulders/arms/gloves take the impact. Train your head movement, slips, bobs, weaves etc. This is where good training partners come in handy.

    I've had my ribs severely bruised from a knee while I was downed in side control. Its not nice, crunching sounds and difficulty in breathing. Even going to the loo was a pain, laughing...anything.

    Once again blocking, moving, high checks will help this.

    Chances of you being comatose is actually quite slim from impact at the level of sparring you do. (however never say never). Headguards and thicker gloves maybe in consideration?

    Again, normal. Same thing as the first, its natural instinct kicking in to protect yourself.
    Check the kicks and wear shin guards, at least there is protection from one side. If the other sparring partner is going too heavy then mention so and you will be accomodated, otherwise change partners.
  15. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Where are you based?
  16. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    I don't know mate but honestly.... it soudns as if you're confused as to whether you want to be able to fight or do the whole TMA experience with standing in lines and giving people funny titles. The two rarely go hand in hand.

    Don't forget that you're a customer. You can go wherever you like. All this "sensei says no" crap is just one big pretention that you need to let go of if you wanna find somewere you're happy!
  17. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Just a friiendly reminder that we don't allow profanity on MAP ronki23. :)

  18. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    I'm just saying that the guy's obviously not disciplined himself and can't control his students. Plus as I said before, the guy's Ju Jitsu is learnt from the guy who's teaching me as it is.

    I will do ISKA and WKA as well my local competitions but am just frustrated that Sport Karate is the only stand up i'm good at.

    What arts are best for taking down and keeping the opponent down? I can do Judo competition and randori since I already have the base. What about wrestling-can you get fast takedowns with wrestling/are the positions I end up in advantageous? The wrestling club is Olympic wrestling.

    Can I combine Judo AND Wrestling?

    I'm thinking of using pointfighting to close my distances/stun the opponent and then take him down? Should I do BOTH Judo and Wrestling and what competitions can I do that combine strikes and throws (not grappling).

    Japanese sport karate competitions? Hapkido competitions? San Shou?

    Ideas please!
  19. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    Points fighting WILL stun someone... they'll be stunned someone actually tried a point fighting technique on them in a full contact environment yeah, but it won't stop them boppin you one back.

    I think personally you just need to relax and be more objective about the places you train.

    What town you from? I could probably recomend some good kickboxing\mma\thai boxing gyms nearby.
  20. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    Both judo and olympic wrestling will teach you takedowns and pins. Which you prefer will just be a matter of personal preference though. I for example prefer wrestling to judo because it feels more natural to me.

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