FBI warns of plans for nationwide armed protests next week

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Xue Sheng, Jan 12, 2021.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    There are people who want to enact violence on both sides. It just happens that far right ideologies tend to attract the people trained by the government to actually carry it out.

    The left in the West has become a lot less violent in both intent and action since the 1970s though.
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  2. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Economically, no, but that's not what I'm saying. He was fired up regarding the racial justice movement following the police killings of Eric Garner and Mike Brown. Except instead of protesting peacefully like the vast vast majority of BLM protesters, he sought violent "revenge" against law enforcement by killing two random, innocent officers.

    NPR Cookie Consent and Choices
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
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  3. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Looks like he was fired up long before that, although the black nationalist gang he was allegedly affiliated with do describe themselves as Marxist-Leninist: Black Guerrilla Family - Wikipedia
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  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Funny that the Women's March is considered left wing in the US. Their stated principles could easily be found to be said by moderate conservatives over here.

    Unity Principles
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  5. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    I just want to be crystal clear that I'm not saying that these murderers are in any way the norm for the Black Lives Matter. I support Black Lives Matter. I'm just disputing the assertion that there's no violent fringe on the left wing.
  6. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Although I agree with the extremists on both sides, I did clarify "far anarchist left".
    Unsurprisingly, libertarian socialism produces a lot less nutters as its antithetical to the ideology to infringe on someone else's life unless they endanger people.

    Far left anarchists do differ from generalised "leftism".

    Saying that, we are in total agreement, the far left of all stripes is also dangerous.
    All the extremism that devalues human life is a danger.

    Anti semitism is a weird cancer.
    No matter the contributions of Jewish folks to the German state in WW1 = anti semitism from nationalists

    Jewish folks in the development of socialism (the kibbutz movement is really cool) = anti semitism from socialists

    It's the original racism
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  7. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Are we saying any black people who are radicalised by police killings are left wing now?

    Politics has got very strange recently.
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  8. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Agreed and agreed.

    The example of the PLO type plane jacking may not of been only racism however IIRC they kept the Jewish hostages because they were trying to get PLO prisoners in Israel released, I'm definitely not saying any of that was right, but if you want less hostages, and still need to keep the important ones, keeping the Jewish ones does make rational sense.

    Again I'm not I'm support of this, I'm just saying things that are complex, are complex.
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  9. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Literally cant think of anything more complex than Israel and its conception.
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  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    The reasons why people believe Qanon conspiracies?
  11. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    That's relatively simple - the world is a chaotic jumble and grand conspiracy with someone in charge is easier to believe in than to acknowledge the chaos.

    Israel on the other hand.. self determination for a historically oppressed people seems fair.
    Community self defence for those people is also fair.

    But putting them in a "historical homeland" which many lost ties to is questionable.
    Placing any land we allocated them far from Europe is also questionable.
    The internal racism and ashkenazi dominance in Israel is problematic.

    Making little effort to make the historically oppressed people feel welcome ("well if jews dont like it here, they can go to Israel ") is also again questionable.

    The "Jewish question" hasnt been solved by Israel. The answer was to accept them as equal citizens without doubt into europe. I'm glad there is a safe place for Jewish people but sad we never accepted them fully.

    The problems Jewish folk faced historically is the future for all minorities in Europe, especially for south Asian muslims in the UK to which the old anti semitic tropes have been recycled and used against (everything from "breeding uncontrollably", the blood libel, national loyalty and socialism).
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  12. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    And there's people who say it makes "rational sense" to target Jewish populations in France, America, Argentina, etc with violence, because of some message it sends. I'm not really interested in having that discussion. But then again, I have a very vested, very personal interest in people not killing Jews to make a political point...even if they can articulate that political point.
  13. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Vested interest or not, youre 100% right
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  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Hopefully we can all agree that terrorising civilians to further a political goal is unacceptable, regardless of the target or perpetrator.

    Going back to if those people listed by Mitlov really were left wing terrorists: I think we have to very careful about our biases. Standards should be applied evenly; if we're going to call terrorists right wing if they have even a casual or tenuous links to right wing groups, then we shouldn't find excuses why left wing terrorists aren't really left wing.
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  15. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I don't disagree with you at all.

    All pogroms etc are bad, and i'm not up for defending targeting innocent people.

    But that also includes how the Palestinian people (of all and no religions) are treated by the Israeli government (again of all and no religions).

    Perhaps that's best left for another time.

    Although it's another example of where trump has damaged the world.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    So anyway I think we've all decided that the current threat in America seems to be the extreme right wing, and that has been emboldened by the propoganda broadcast daily by fox news and OAN etc.

    How do we come back from this, and given Americas past history in regime change all of the world, in favour of right wing governments, is this a long term structural weakness, or a short term issue that's best ignored?
  17. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Ok I've just reread this, and it sounds a bit too all lives matter for my liking.

    And that's not helpful or even on topic.

    My apologies.
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  18. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny


    We were talking about attacks on Jewish Americans, Jewish Frenchpeople, Jewish Argentinians, etc. because of their ethnicity and religion. I never once mentioned the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. "to target Jewish populations in France, America, Argentina, etc with violence..."

    If you can't condemn a terrorist killing a civilian because of their religion without demanding that X country simultaneously be condemned, just because the victim's religion is the majority religion in that country, you're acting just like the people who say "but what about Saudi Arabia" when a New York taxi driver is killed in an anti-Muslim hate crime. And what do you think about people who say "but what about Saudi Arabia" when a Muslim taxi-driver in New York is stabbed by a bigot?
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  19. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    A) I've already apologised. As it wasn't helpful, and semi off topic.

    B) the context was the PLO hijacking, where the Palestinians were attempting to get Palestinian prisoners released by the Israeli giverment. That is why I mentioned Palestine, because you mentioned it first, that was all.
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  20. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    I read the posts in order and hadn't seen your apology yet when I responded to that post. Thank you for apologizing.

    I really don't see the Entebbe hijacking as fair to classify as simply part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Half the terrorists were Germans. The plane hijacked was an Air France airliner. The hostages were held in Uganda. And the hostages were "all the Jews on the plane," not "all the Israelis on the plane." If that's considered an action within the Israeli-Palestinian conflict instead of just a terrorist attack on Jews, then literally every terrorist attack on any Jew worldwide could be dismissed as simply part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, including rabbis being stabbed in France, the bombing of a Jewish community center in Argentina, etc.

    And there are people who argue "but whatabout Israel" every time, say, a French Jew is stabbed in France by a French perpetrator, or stuff like that. And argue that they're being "liberal" or "progressive" when doing so. This is a real thing that happens and it's really really problematic. That dynamic is what I'm trying to illustrate.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
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