FAQ - What is a McDojo and How Do I Spot One?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by aikiwolfie, Dec 27, 2010.

  1. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    i hear what you're saying owlmatt, about the weeding out part. but by doing contracts, you're also not allowing your business to collect that couple months of cash that you would not have ordinarily had from, let's just call them, mcstudents. does any respectable dojo operator want mcstudents? probably not.

    what i'd be interested in finding out about also is, how many people stop paying their contract? and what does it cost to go after that money? and how much is typically recovered? because you're going to have costs associated with the business of enforcing contracts: the original legal work for the contract itself, and then enforcing it.
     
  2. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    Much depend on whether the premises has a credit licence, at least here in the UK, as to whether any contract is enforceable.
     
  3. OwlMAtt

    OwlMAtt Armed and Scrupulous

    A few trends I am noticing in McDojos around Milwaukee:
    - Uniforms in national colors (bonus points for stars and/or stripes)
    - Use of generic Japanese terms in reference to non-Japanese martial arts (ex: calling a place that teaches taekwondo a "dojo")
    - Refusal to answer questions about rates or schedule unless you visit in person
    - Constant references on the web site to "martial arts" rather than a particular art
     
  4. Bigmikey

    Bigmikey Internet Pacifist.

    .... so nobody liked my drive-thru joke.... oh the shame...




    owlmatt, the no prices over the phone thing is a good indicator that something isnt right. Back in the day, around here, they had Chung Moo Quan. These guys wouldnt even speak to you on the phone. They'd say good morning or whatever was appropriate and then instantly ask you when you'd like to come in.

    IF you did make an appt they would barrage you with fancy uniforms denoting rank and even authority, they'd belittle you, intimidate you and if you did sign you were straight up humped. Look them up on line if you want, you can still find horror stories about them.
     
  5. Blade96

    Blade96 shotokan karateka

    i thought it was cute.
     
  6. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    i agree about the uniforms. i think that anytime you're forced to buy a new uniform that's not a generic judo/aikido/bjj/karate gi, seems mcdojoish.
     
  7. digitalfanatic

    digitalfanatic Valued Member

    Well, I really think it's a good thing if organizations run for profit, because then they work even harder. As long as they teach the right thing, it's okay to charge profit!
     
  8. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    But do they work harder at developing and transferring the art or simply maximising profit by making training easy, fun and family focused (which always seems to mean "child black belts" to me)?
     
  9. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    Think that depends on whether the instructor values the art or the money more. What starts out as a good thing can change once the cash starts coming in but it's not always the case
     
  10. robocoastie

    robocoastie Valued Member

    my opinion in a nutshell

    contracts, requirements to buy sparring gear right away, and multiple "sub-belt" levels which of course means more testing $$ bilched from you.
     
  11. robocoastie

    robocoastie Valued Member

    re: child black belts

    I agree Moi. For one thing Black Belt is not the be all and end all level for many arts. Sport style TKD for example really begins at Black Belt level and the slow-down happens after 1st dan; the result is a lot of "child" black belts. For other styles instructor level starts before black belt/sash and black belt/sash is the furthest it goes for further goal advancement, some Chinese styles for example cease formally rank advancing at black sash.

    NOTE: some TKD schools are of course the exception and far more combative oriented rather than sport so Black Belt rank 1st dan is likely more comparable to a 3rd dan in a sportive style. As with anything mileage may vary. That's what makes martial arts so tough to lump compare together wouldn't you agree?
     
  12. robocoastie

    robocoastie Valued Member

    motivation

    NO doubt. The worker is worthy of his pay. Sometimes charging really is the way to really motivate a person to learn. Look at first year community college students who were average or poor grade earners in High School but find themselves near top of class in college. When you pay yourself there is high motivation! :rolleyes:
     
  13. Bigmikey

    Bigmikey Internet Pacifist.

    I don't know that I really have a problem with sub-belts or sub-levels provided each has specific skills that can be tested for. An example is at my school, the TKD classes have "stripe" tests. So as a yellow belt you get your red stripe for knowing your class terms and procedures, your blue stripe for knowing your required techniques and then your black stripe for your form. You cant take your actual advancement test until you've earned all your stripes. In THAT instance I think they are fine.

    When I think it doesnt work is when those sub-steps come with fees.
     
  14. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Stripes? Like in the Army? :)
     
  15. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    In general I'm against sub-tests. It implies the test was originally one test and for whatever reason has been split and broken down. Which suggests either some watering down is going on. The tests are being strung out for a greater monetary return or both.

    I'd be willing to bet it's a rare thing these test come with zero cost to the student attached. The teacher doesn't need to charge for the test directly. Testing often requires uninterrupted attendance just for the student to pick up the course material. And often teachers will encourage students to attend "additional" training sessions. Which will of course cost money.

    In general I think it's best to avoid things in life that are more complicated than they need to be. Whatever that thing may be. Including martial arts.
     
  16. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    The sub tests is a marketing ploy esp if they charge for these.

    It is a method to string-along the ranking in order to motivate the students and stimulate additional income and have people think it all has value.

    Simply, the more belts, the more something is shown for display
     
  17. Bigmikey

    Bigmikey Internet Pacifist.

    LOL, its only a piece of tape that goes around the end of the belt and signifies you've met the qualifications for that color, whatever it is.
     
  18. Bigmikey

    Bigmikey Internet Pacifist.

    I disagree. To me it makes sense. In school we take tests on subject matter and then take a mid term and final exam. I view sub tests as those weekly tests and the "belt test" as that mid term and your black betl test as your final. I think there have to be methods to guage progress that can be more concrete than simply the teacher walking up and saying "ok, you can test for your belt now"
     
  19. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    I know. I was joking around.

    The tape is actual vinyl/lectrical
     
  20. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    I never had weekly tests at school and my teachers managed to judge my level of competence properly. Personally I thought that's what the course work was for. You do your work. Hand it in. It gets graded.

    In martial arts students turn up to class, participate, the teacher demonstrates and observes and corrects mistakes. If the teacher is having to fall back on intermediate testing then there are too many students in the class. The teacher needs to break the class up into smaller groups that train on different nights of the week or delegate some teaching to the more advanced students.
     

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