Fa jing?

Guys I've searched the forum but theres not a real good thread on fa jing

what are the traning methods you use to learn to do it in your system?
How it is diffrent from external punching?
how long did it take you to start to do it?
What exactly is it?
pros and cons vs external punching?
Are there diffrent types of fajing?
And lets try to focus on realistic ways to learn to do it.

And any and everything else you guys/gals can add

Thanks alot i appreciate it everybody.

 

Fa jing. Some think it is the bees' knees. Not totally convinced that its the be all and end all though.

I saw an Erle vid a while back on the subject and it was described as a sort of complete body 'sneeze'. Seemed to work though, and looked like a suitable description when I saw some chen stylists doing fa-jing in their forms.

As far as the diff between an external punch and an internal one?

The external is mainly dealing with the arm (on a basic level), the internal tries to get the entire body behind it.

On a basic level we know that force is directly proportional to the mass involved, so the greater the mass you can get behind the punch the better.

 

What about training mthods?

 

training methods?

Chen style forms have a fair amount of fajing movements.
You could just try to isolate those movements and give it a go.
The Erle vid I saw was pretty good I thought (even though some people diss him, I did not see anything wrong with this vid) He used a hip shake/spasm sorta thingy to do it.
Try to use that movement to hit stuff.

May I ask you something?
How long have you been studying? Are you trying to find shortcuts?

I ask because at the start of my taiji journey I too looked for all the shortcuts possible to try to develope my 'awesome taiji power'(TM), but the only true way is through perserverance. Now I just stick at it and wait for those glorious moments of breakthrough to occur, and boy are they sweet!
The first night I realised that I could uproot and do a good push was brilliant!

 

Fajing to me is simply issuing power in a movment like a strike or kick... unfortunately I am not learned or experienced enough yet to give a more complete explaination... I do know however that when my teacher uses a movement which incorporates fajing... holy cow... I have once or twice managed to get it fairly right myself and definitely notice the difference in the movment (strike or kick) and it seems to happen more readily when I am focused and relaxed...

 

I have limited knowledge and ability in this area, and I've heard plenty of different interpretations, so please take this with a grain of salt.

"Fa jing" means issuing martial power. Fa = issue. Jing = martial power. At least, that seems to be the best translation I've yet to hear.

By that simple definition, I would imagine a haymaker is considered fajing as much as a taiji push is. This would also indicate that yes, there are different types of fajing, and that fajing is neither exclusively internal nor external. But, there do seem to be general 'internal' and 'external' methods of issuing power.

I don't have time now, but those could use some delineating.

 

The word ‘Jing’ or ‘Ching’ as a Chinese character represents several things, some of which are 'stillness' and 'essence'. Hence ‘jing’ in a martial arts context is taken to represent an internal strike, as 'essence' and 'stillness' are required to cultivate such energy, in order to have a surplus of it, to discharge it. Thus, 'Fa Jing' is discharging energy, that is cultivated through essence and stillness.

The external strikes of external martial arts are called 'Fa Li' , 'Li' reefers to 'brute force', and probably something else. The reason I say ‘and probably something else’, is because Chinese characters are multilayered, they usually convey several meanings, and are differentiated by pronunciation, the interesting thing is the meanings that are denoted by one character are usually connected, this makes poetry and literature very interesting as it employs more creativity as opposed to static English. This can convey several connected meanings at the same time.

 

Ahhhh. That's right. I forgot about fa li. Thanks.

 

Not so. All the external training I've done involves getting your entire weight behind the strike.

I'm still making up my mind about the value or my internal training in real self-defence. (Although there certainly seem to be genuine health benefits, as a number of clinical trials have shown.) Has anyone here actually used their internal art for real (e.g. when mugged)?

How do you feel the internal training increases your prowess compared to external training?

 

check out mike patterson's, tim cartmell's, and dan docherty's websites. they're all IMArtists with excellent records.

 

I've used my Aikido to defend myself and it worked great. Didn't even hurt the person in the process.

 

I think to a certain extent 'internal' and 'external' are misleading terms - any attempts at power generation will incorporate both. But getting back to training, I have heard two explanations which have helped in training for this type of power generation. The first (which i try to use for kicks) was to visualise your body as a whip (much like the 'body sneeze' explenation), let the coil and release go through your entire body - the second (which i have found more useful for punches), was to imagine a car crash (the car is stopped suddenly, and the passenger keeps going) - now visualise your body as the car and your arm/ fist as the passenger - this can first be exagerated with larger body movement - then when you get the hang of it, slowly minimize your movements whilst still adhering to the same principles

 

This is a good question: what separates a fa-jing punch from an external punch. In my experience: external punches, like in Karate, Taekwondo or Western Boxing [all of which I studied to varying degrees], tend to use the hip and shoulder to generate power. With fa-jing punching, as I have learnt it, the source of power is the spine - the spine stores and issues enery [this is difficult to explain]. Most important here is what we call 'C-back', which refers to the shape of the spine. As for training methods, good old single push hands is best as it works the spine - in single push hands you want to be using the spine to receive and issue force. No amount of push ups, lifting weights - i.e. external training methods - can give you this sense of using the backbone. Of course the shaking of the waist is very important - i.e. the motor for the whole thing - though the waist must be coordinated with the spine. Just moving, even shaking, the waist is not enough. There is though no better training method than push hands, and of course punching stuff. Fa-jing punches must be practiced over the shortest distance possible.

 

Oh, I think the above analogies of the whip and the car crash are quite good - fa-jing uses counter forces [i.e. the hip pulling back just before the hand hits the target] to develop explosive power, as opposed to pushing power. This means that a hay maker and a tai chi push can never be considered fa-jing.

 

My under standing is that a external punch uses a horizontal arch generated by the hips and shoulders.

and a internal punch uses a vertical arch from the pelvis untilting and the spine straighting which is why the hip does not have to twist to generate the power.

 

Relaxation (yet maintaining structure) and Intent. There's more, I'm sure, but that seems to be the core of it for me.

 

My teacher has used the phrase of liking a punch or fa jing to a sneeze and it is probably the best way of describing it. As for where the punch comes from it starts from your foot and ends at the end of your fist like a chain reaction through the body.

 

I learn to turn the hips lead by the waist. I would say, I don't have a whole lot to say. Correct practice and learnig develops the spiral and fa jing power, I think.

It shoots out and shakes.

 

From http://www.shenwu.com/background.htm,

"Principles of the arts later named Internal were complete physical relaxation, yielding to force, the use of the power of the whole body under mental control and relying on sensitivity and skill to overcome brute strength... if we assume Internal refers to the principles listed above, [then] external is anything which is outside of these principles."

So, for an internal strike, you need...
1. Complete physical relaxation (sung)
2. Power of the whole body under mental control (yi, aka intent)

This definition encompasses pushes, punches, palms, splitting, plucking, shaking, exploding, and all that jazzy stuff.

 

Hi;

There is several chapters on Fa Jin in the book.

Fa Jin

Search the book inside "Fa Jin".

It allows you to read 6 pages free each time.

1) storing Jin first by preparatory moves. It has to be slow and balance. It is like extending a bow.

2) release or issue the Jin like a thunder or lightening.

It is like releasing an arrow.

Shi Jin Lu Zhang Gong. Fa Jin Si Fan Jian. Tai Ji classics.