Fa jing:an explanation

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by Putrid, Jul 21, 2011.

  1. Putrid

    Putrid Moved on

    Clip by Erle Montaigue giving an expanation of fa jing.Being an electrical engineer I find it rather bizarre.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2dL0oIYj-g"]‪Fa-Jing: The Way Volume One: Montaigue‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    A lot of what Erle says is very bizarre.....
  3. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    Can't really say much for Erle's explanation... to be honest I think feeling the force is a hell of a better explanation than saying it, as you can actually feel what the force is doing inside of you. Very often its very painful, but I dont think that one can really learn these things without being on the receiving end.

    Nevertheless, I found this on another forum I frequent, maybe it’s of some use to someone.

    Basic ways of looking at Force in the Chinese Martial Systems

    1. 衝擊力 Chōngjī Lì (Impact or Thrusting Force) a.k.a. 撞擊力 Zhuàngjī Li (Hitting; Colliding Force) is the standard way that all the worlds martial artists punch and strike. It's like hitting a nail with a hammer. When we speak of Forces or adding in forces this is the 1st force. This is the initial contact of fist to body.

    2. 螺旋力 Luoxuan Li (Spiraling; Drilling Force) or 自轉力 Zìzhuàn Li (Rotating Force) is when one physically twists, drills, and rotates the fist, bones of the forearm, and shoulder as the strike is landing or the arm is bridging.

    3. 發力 'Fa Li' is another mechanical movement or 'force' that can be done in addition to the 衝擊力 Chōngjī Lì force and adds in a 2nd movement and a following force to the initial strike. This is done through a quick movement of the spine, coordinated with the movement of the arms and legs. Storing up (蓄 xù) then releasing (發 fa) and the secondary force travels out through the arms. There's a term in Chinese Arts called the 五弓 Wu Gong (5 Bows -as in 'bow & arrow') meaning the 1- spinal column, 2&3 - the two arms, 4&5 - the two legs. The movements in the CMAs are said to start at the 'root and not the tip' - the root of the arm is the shoulder, the root of the leg is the hip, and the root of the spine is the tailbone or sacrum and tucking the tailbone under with a fast quick movement is how we 發力 Fa Li / 發勁 Fa jin, which is also called 波浪勁 Bo Lang Jin (Wave Power a.k.a. Spinal Wave).

    Learning to 發力 'Fa Li' is a precursor to learning the following 2 Forces:

    4. 爆破力 Baopo Li (Exploding Force) a.k.a. 寸力 Cùn Li (Inch Force) is the ability to generate force in a very short space. After one first learns to 'Fa Li' with the spine then they can begin to learn this force where you need to store up (蓄 xù) very quickly and efficiently, or rather the storing up part needs to also be done within a short or confined space and then release the force (發 fa) in an equally as quick manner, like a quick pulse rather than a wave, and this could be a short movement or long movement of the arm with the quick pulse at the end.


    5. 振動力 - Zhen Dongli (Shocking Force) a.k.a. 抖勁 dǒujìn (tremble; shaking energy). This is quick sudden variations in the 肌肉 jīròu (muscles and flesh) and a shifting between 鬆 sōng (relaxation) and 緊 jǐn (tension). The goal of this force is that it 透勁 tòujìn (penetrates; passes through) and into the internal organs of the opponent, damaging them. It's also used in quick succession to take the slack out of the opponent's limbs and joints and thereby being able to affect their spinal column and whole body, primarily to aid in throwing but the shaking/shocking can itself cause soft tissue damage to the limbs and body, and even whiplash or injure the neck. This power and force that comes from the 發力 'Fa Li' and movement of the spine and the movement of the of the Dantian, which when moved it's force is somewhat 'omnidirectional', or expanding outward in all directions, so a good portion of the power is also going down to the foot and this is the reason for the rule of "The hand and foot arriving at the same time." or timing the landing of the foot with the hand hitting the opponent so that most of the force goes into the opponent. If the foot lands before the hand then most of the force is dissipated into the ground. We take advantage of this force traveling to the leg and the 振動力 - Zhen Dongli (Shocking Force) is actually a 3rd outgoing force into the opponent, arriving just after the 1st (衝擊力 Chōngjī Lì) and the 2nd (發力 'Fa Li' ). So this 振 Zhèn (Shocking force) comes from using some of our Intent (意 'Yi') to 發 'Fa' into the feet while the upper body is relaxed and then a delayed force comes back up from the ground and adds in a 3rd dispersive or explosive force to the initial strike.
  4. whoflungdat

    whoflungdat Valued Member

    I think if you dont know what fajing is then they are both confusing :-/ the best way is to feel it, drill it and let the body understand it.
  5. Griffin

    Griffin Valued Member


    Do you find anything odd with this particular vid?
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2011
  6. whoflungdat

    whoflungdat Valued Member

    no not really, he is trying to explain yin and yang theory utilized in Yang and Chen Tai Chi to enable people to strike closer to their full potential and pretending its his own.
    The methods could be described as add ons. Get the engine running first, then add the fine tuning afterwards. Unfortunately he is missing the engine.
  7. Putrid

    Putrid Moved on

    Nothing odd there,its pretty basic stuff with reasonable explanations.What I found odd about Erle's clip was the part about living in a 40,000 volt atmosphere and being able to harness its potenial.In the past Erle's fajing was similar to what you posted,albeit more explosive,but the explanation was almost the same,ie,storing and releasing.
  8. whoflungdat

    whoflungdat Valued Member

    He is just trying to find another way to explain things that's all. I have seen him explain Chi a number of ways over the years and on various DVD's.
    The message he is trying to get over is the change of state from sung to BAM !! good night.:)
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    He didn't explain it very well to Renzo....
  10. Griffin

    Griffin Valued Member

    Did they cross paths at one stage? Would love to hear more about that :cool:
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    The cliffs notes version:

    Renzo challenged Erle
    Erle said "I must warn you I will be fighting with no rules"
    Renzo said "ok"
    Erle said "No, i mean literally no rules..you may die"
    Renzo said "ok"

    Erle backed out
  12. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I think it came about after Erle brought out a book called "Ultimate Dim Mak: How to Fight a Grappler and Win"


    It was a pretty pathetic anti-grapple cash in on the fact BJJ/Grappling was dominating the early NHB events
  13. AndrewTheAndroid

    AndrewTheAndroid A hero for fun.

    His energy is so explosive the entire gym turned orange.
  14. Armain

    Armain New Member

    Tai Chi Chuan/Tai Ji Quan in Romania, a few very short demonstrations about Fa Jing:
  15. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    Good talk, nothing wrong with anything, I am not sure what ending he was going for, but everything to that point was correct.

    Calling it the third brain was a different take on things, but the spine and neck do play a large role in things.

  16. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    *waits for hannibal to ask about RobinHoods lineage and for other TC guys to wonder the same thing*
  17. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    I find it very strange that someone explains Fajin without standing infront of a heavy bag or life opponent. Faijn into the thin air is quite different from Fajin on a heavy bag or a life human body.

    Faiji is to "apply to others". Where is the "others"?
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2012
  18. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    Forget about Hannibal, he should not worry about my lineage, but worry more about why he does not know what I know.

    Telling him my lineage will not give him the knowelge or experence to know what I am talking about.

    I will tell you one thing, that I have more time in MA than he has in breathing air.

  19. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Is either of these a demonstration of Fajing?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvZXezYD838"]TOW #13 Striking: Falling Step - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEdvJvza1Yc"]MTG67: Fa-Jing Erle Montaigue - YouTube[/ame]
  20. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    This is Fajin:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTGxj6zOzEU"]Human Weapon - Muay Thai - Flying Knee - YouTube[/ame]

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