Somewhere in conversation here we've mentioned where communication can be an issue or where it is of no bearing. Language of the arts is by the body not words. I've seen this a few times, obviously in Japan where if you don't speak Japanese it can get lost in translation. The technique may resemble what is being taught, but not complete. As time goes on you pay less attention to what is being said and more what is being done. In my dojo, we did this as an example with a member who was French, of which no one else spoke. To add we covered his hands with socks. He taught a 4 hr seminar in French. Awesome, as time went on the technique as they were taught were so much better. Just wondering if anyone had challenged their classes this way. It will also lead into another discussion about the Ten Chi Jin.
Very interesting. I'm quite graphic with my hands, like to give similes and metaphors and I'm not sure how I'd get on without the use of language. It sounds like an interesting experiment.
In March I spent 14 days training with an instructor in China, to learn a martial art that was new to me 'Liu He Ba Fa', training was mainly copy this move but instruction and my questions were given in a mixture of English, German, Cantonese and Mandarin - I only speak English although I understand a few words (and I mean only a few) in the other languages. Language definitely helps understanding the finer points and the reasons and philosophies behind the moves but a good instructor should be able to do a heck of a lot by showing and touching. One example, sometimes in Liu He Ba Fa a particular amount or direction of force is needed when practicing the solo form, my instructor would come and touch, push, pull my arms (or whatever) until I understood what he wanted... (I suspect that because I am an experienced martial artist that the process was easier than if I had been a complete 'newbie') ... but a good instructor manages (as I said) a heck of a lot.
Once, when there is too much talking, we reverted to 'silent class', with no speech by anyone. I found it incredibly useful.
I think it is great when that happens. In Japan, I remember working with a German. Who spoke no English. But we trained for a number of hours. There were points of fustration no doubt but overall very enriching. I wonder too however this can be to the written word over time. I think I know how the TCJ was translated, at least what my teacher told me. But I have to ask, if you think for some waza, kamae etc etc was there anything lost in translation. Was it translated from the written word or verbal? I was told it was a Swede that did the translation for the tome we had, which I have seen in a number of dojo. It has the kamae drawings in it.
A while back Dave when I was gaining to be a windsurfing instructor, a large section covered delivering instruction with only three or four words. The logic being people learn a lot more by visual stimulus than be ranting on on on. I also was shown a great clip here a short time ago by Mattt I think called the 'perfect method' for bjj instruction. Fwiw
IIRC it was translated from the original Japanese text. I think that the Japanese version has stickman drawings in it. Inevitable that things will be lost in translation, especially with densho type documents that are vague, use "flowery" language, or are even purposely errored, so personal tuition and kuden are required. As for silent classes, it can be very good. Which reminds me about that other thread saying people who do not explain fully are usually poor (was it Simon who said that?). I have often found exactly the opposite to be true. Too much talking could be low skill/nerves/worried about impressing students. Not much talking - comfortable with ability/high skill/not concerned with impressing people.
