I bought 'em new - I'm 900 years old you see But seriosuly - hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of searching through old book shops & boot sales.
You can`t beat an old book shop, the kind that have dust on most of the books and look as if they`ve been there since the start of the printed word
"I was quite suprised in the differences between the individual european styles. The Italian 'pendulum' method of striking and the German small circular motions." i know a person who has been a traditional fencer for a while. the four western styles are based around certain differenty memtailties of combat. The Russian and Germans were based around strength in which they would beat the blade out of line before attacking. The Italians were based around taking control of the enemy`s blade before thrusting into a vita area of the body. The French method of combat was beased on deception, where they relied on the enemy to over extend their original price d`faire (taking of the blade) at which point they would move their balde out of the way and thrust as the enemies blade moved away from their body: "these started to get longer & longer until they were reaching a size that could not be carried everyday, this mant the development of swords that though still using the point were shorter ( eppie & eventually the short sword ), " the epee de combat (epee) is designed around the standard specifications of a duelling sword. If you shaprened the point, it would run a person through before it bent.
which form of "Sports fencing"? a) Foil: my opponent is dead I`m not, I get the point? b) epee: I drew first blood, I get the point c) saber) I caused first bleeding cut that did not damage the horse, I get the point
i meant that to me epee seems more realistic. But I would only learn sprt fencing for amusment I like to keep my fighting realistic using a very light piec of metal to score touches seems like sword tag. Not that I would like to draw actual blood or cause a severe injury in practice. I just prefer to use tools that weigh as close to an actual weapon
Good example of why I prefer foil. I have no interest in scratching my opponent to "satisfy honour" - I want to run the dasterdly cad through
Unlike the foil, which when invented was one of the deadliest weapons available, what with being able to penetrate most of the simple forms of armor, often up to and including full plate mail. Depends how deep the cut is, give me a sabre anytime, quick slash to the neck or stomach'll take most people down.
wait a second I thought the foil was the very flexible of the three. And historically it was used for traing for the very reason that is wouldnt severly injure. I would like to see a foil punch trough full plate. It lacks rigidity enough I dont even think a sporting epee would. it take scertain design of blade to punch hole in metal plates. Like a rigid blaed that is distally tapered.
"Good example of why I prefer foil. I have no interest in scratching my opponent to "satisfy honour" - I want to run the dasterdly cad through " So when someone slaps you in the face with their glove you fight o the death? That`s tough but fair.
Now clarify some thing for me. How can foil which is flimsy peice of metal be able to pentrate armor?
Ressurrection! I'd like to ressurrect this page as I am a dedicatded WMArtist! I know of the following manuals from medieval times: I-33 (sword+bucklar) Lichtenhauer ("everything") Fiore Del Libere ("everything") **** De Silva ? Talhoffer ("everything") Mendoza (boxing from 1700) Durer (Wrestling) Ringek (Wrestling) With "everything", I mean manuals that works on a whole system, incorporating wresteling, dagger, 1Hswords, 2H swords, Hellebards/2hWarhammers and sometimes allso fighting from horseback. I train primarily "Fiore longsword, dagger and wresteling, but I'm allso about to start working on Sword and bucklar.
Glad you resurrected this thread Bjorn, All the following Great Books on Western Martial arts are reviewed here: http://www.martialartsadvice.com/cat.php?cat=4 English Martial Arts-Terry Brown (Anglo-Saxon Books). Covering the entire Armed and unarmed Gamut of English Fighting Arts of the 16th Century including Quarterstaff, Bill Hook, Broadsword, Sword and Buckler, Sword and Dagger, Fisticuffs etc Secret History of The Sword-J Christopher Amberger (Multi-Media Books). Covers the Historical importance and usage of the Western Sword in Western Martial Culture from year dot til now, from Germanic, Celtic and Roman times, through Medieval to modern methods. With some asides to Oriental swords too. Master of Defence (The Works of George Silver)-Paul Wagner, with Stephen Hand etc (Paladin Press). Brilliant dissection of the George Silver Fighting Manual from 1599, discussion on methodology, aspects of usage, principles, vs other weapons, the True Fight etc etc. Loads more including Longbow by Robert Hardy etc etc.
Pardon the Scadian for a moment, but I must comment. Martial artists usually make really great fencers. I've seen quite a few of my karate buddies pick up the art and excel. The body control and stance learned from kata transfer over to the sword easily. However, the two-handed broadsword is highly different from the katana. It takes a lot more upper body strength, and not as much finesse to handle a two-handed sword. Still, this is not to say that using the two-handed sword is not a useful skill, it just takes a different set of skills to handle that weapon. A problem some martial artists encounter is handling a shield. We just aren't exactly trained to hold something out to catch a blow. We want to divert or get out of the way, and, usually, a tower shield just slows us down. Again, though, using a shield is still a useful skill. For other weapons, nunchaku skill will help you use a flail (it's not exactly the same, but you can compensate for the different weight) while bo or oar techniques transfer over to the pike very easily. (Even better, though, if you actually know how to use a naginaga!) Hope this is enlightening.
Ok first. Welcome fellow Scadian. A lot of the guys a fight with devoloped great Martial arts stances and foot work from doing nothing but Caidian Shinai. not as much finesse? What are you smoking? If you are useing a lot of upper body strength you are wasting your effort most of the the power should come from your hips and legs your arms just guide the strike. Compareing a larger twohanded sword to a katana is like comparing a sports car to a heavy duty pickup truck. Now if you were to compare say a longsword and katana or a gretesword and nodachi that would make sense. And if holding a tower sheild slows you down heres a great idea get a smaller sheild I've used bucklers and small rounds to great effect. Tower sheilds shold be used for thing and thats at War when you are packed close and have spear men behind you.
I will try to not get started on you, Furikuchan; Crudgel did that just fine Just some comments: (I'm generalizing here, you be warned!) Regarding stances; my experience is that the european stances are a bit more upright and with the feet a bit closer together than on eastern martial arts. There is alls a lot of emphasis on the footwork (perhaps as it was paramount for a heavily armoured knight to stand on his legs when killing an inferior protected but numerically superior enemy). You get to learn to move in 8 directions both backways and foreways, using both gathersteps and passing steps; comitted and uncomitted. Fighting with european systems allso involves working in circles rather than straight lines. As for requiring more strength for usin Zweihenders/Longswords than Nodachi/Katana, I cannot think that is the case. My longswrod is (still) 1m30cm, weighing about 2,5 kilo. I think katanas are both shorter and heavier (kill me if I'm wrong...) When cutting with a longsword, you can use many of the katanateqnices, many of the stances are the same. Its just that with a doubbleedged sword with a diecent crossguard you get even more options than with a katana. Since the blade is straigth and not curced, the cut is more like throwing the blade outwards, as in a kind of stab, that is then brought down in a drawcut; that's at least what's "hot" among the longswordists today! (since we have only fractions of old manuals to work on and no masters around, we have to asume and guess a lot)
WMA Hi Stolenbjorn. I am also involved in promoting/researching WMA, much of it from a Scottish perspective which includes the Scottish sword masters, Donald MacBain and Sir William Hope, the 1790 Scottish Single-stick manual 'Anti-pugilism,' old sword dances, Highland wrestling and techniques found in historical accounts and folklore. I also include techniques found in the 'boxing/grappling' from 16-1700's and the dagger/unarmed combat from treatises such as Fiore My research has turned up a few fragments of Scottish arts that still exist; The Dirk Dance, a combative weapon 'dance' with kicks, trips & sweeps similar to traditional Highland and Glima wrestling. Dirk combat which was practiced at least 50 years ago in Scotland and the stick art, single-stick which seems to have survived in the British Army/fencing clubs and was still being used to teach sabre in the 80's-90's by a veteran fence maestro. My website is http://dirkdance.tripod.com Louie
Very nice! Do you know any websites showing theese fragments? How is it compared to Fiore (or talhoffer)?
