EU referendum

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by cloudz, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I would absolutely trust the Germans with our military more than us in recent years.

    If we could get a slice of their environmental laws, protection of domestic industry, citizen privacy and freedom of press with that I'd be a very happy Brit!
     
  2. CrowZer0

    CrowZer0 Assume formlessness.

    I'm still a little on the fence on this one. Since the start and even now I'm thinking I'll be voting to stay in. Because honestly I really can't see any benefits of leaving. But I'm still holding off for a lighbulb moment where it might suddenly be very clear why we should leave.

    Whar are the main points of the brexit campaign? If it would lead us to be anything similar to Norway I'm all for it.
     
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Last edited: May 10, 2016
  4. CrowZer0

    CrowZer0 Assume formlessness.

  5. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    They have oil and they have less control over their borders than we do.
     
  6. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    They have a load of oil and a small population, and "without the EU" only tells half the story.
     
  7. embra

    embra Valued Member

    The party in Norway is well and truely over. Big changes are coming to Norway due to the collapse in oil prices e.g. Oslo city commune is about to sell off 90% of their public housing stock to private buyers.

    Lot of other stuff as well.
     
  8. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Lots of Scottish independence folk were staking their future on oil. They were surprisingly quiet when the oil price collapsed two weeks after the referendum.
     
  9. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Still don't know enough about this to vote on it tbh. Anyone got reliable source information on pros and cons?
     
  10. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    If you follow the link Deadpool posted it has a massive section on the referendum.
     
  11. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Not sure if it has been posted, but here is the link to the Foreign Affairs Committee report on the EU referendum.

    The committee split with 5 for Leave and 5 for Remain, with the Chair (as the 11th member) announcing on the Daily Politics on Monday that having weighed all the issues in the report he would be voting for Leave. This is likely to be as unbiased analysis from the House of Commons as we are going to get.

    Obviously we will all read it and favour our confirmation bias. :)

    http://www.parliament.uk/business/c...nt-2015/eu-membership-report-published-15-16/
     
  12. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Why on earth would you look to the House of Commons for unbiased anything?
     
  13. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    If you vote leave, there is a non-trivial chance the bottom completely falls out the economy and we will long for the days of 2008/9. But in the long term there might be fewer foreigners.

    Obviously it's more complicated than that, but that's it in a nutshell.
     
  14. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Why on earth would you read a paper produced arguing the cases for and against packed with references? I don't know? I congratulate you on your flexibility if not your clarity.
     
  15. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Politicians are by their nature, biased. Nothing they produce can honestly be called unbiased.
     
  16. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Every source is biased to a greater or lesser degree. That doesn't make every source worthless, as long as you can study it with your critical facilities intact.
     
  17. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    And politicians are definitely on the 'greater' part of that scale.

    Lots of reports have been written on the EU referendum. What exactly does this one add?
     
  18. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    It's pretty much a game of which cabal of cronies you feel safest under.

    Personally, the remain camp swings it for me as a means to keep our future governments in check on human rights and social justice. I don't hold any hopes for the EU becoming more democratic, and I don't hold its institutions in any high regard, but it seems like the least worst option for the have-nots and vulnerable in our society.

    I do think that the argument that Europe is more secure as a bloc has real validity too.

    One big worry about remaining is the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. Although I took Obama's "UK will be at the back of the queue" remark to mean that we'd sign up eventually if we leave the EU, just not as soon as EU member states. I can't see an independent UK turning down the chance to sit at the grown-up's table.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership

    A big bugbear of many environmentalists, and small family farms, is the Common Agricultural Policy. Critics say that it props up big business (and the British royal family) at the expense of small, generational farms and other smallholders, as well as encouraging surplus production.

    http://www.debatingeurope.eu/focus/...-the-common-agricultural-policy/#.VzMi22NicUE

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Agricultural_Policy#Criticism

    Corruption in the EU is also a huge problem: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26014387

    As for finding unbiased resources... good luck with that ;)
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2016
  19. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Corruption, agricultural policy, fishing regulations and permitted banana shapes are small potatoes in this debate and they don't affect the vast majority of people. If you're a small farmer who is being screwed over, vote to leave. If you're a fisherman, vote to leave. If there is a clear undeniable advantage for you and your family to gain by the UK leaving the EU, you should vote to leave. And if that is the case, you are already very aware that that is the case.

    But otherwise, voting to leave is voting to make yourself much worse off in the short term and I don't know about the rest of you, but I feed, clothe and shelter myself in the short term.

    If the UK votes to leave, then a lot of people are going to lose their jobs and a lot of people are going to lose their homes.
     
  20. ned

    ned Valued Member



    Our MP's are at least democratically elected and can be held to account as opposed to the legislators in the European commission .
     

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