EU referendum

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by cloudz, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Do you have a reference for that?
  2. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    sorry, I remember it from a radio four program it was a few years ago.

    I am sure that the European court has other roles, like adjudication on international legal disputes between member counties. but as far as making judgement on national law from what i remember it only did that when the law was agreed by the country but had not yet been put in place into that countries statutes.
  3. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I think that may often be the case, but not the actual principle.

    From the CAB website:

    "If your problem is one which is covered by European law, your case may be referred to the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU), based in Luxembourg. This may happen if European legislation has not been implemented properly by a national government, if there is confusion over its interpretation, or if it has been ignored.

    You must first pursue your case through the national legal system, but the national court can (and in some cases must) refer an issue to the CJEU for guidance (a ruling). The case is then sent back to the national court to make a decision based on the ruling of the CJEU."

  4. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    It's one of the misconceptions about the UK human rights act. The act basically exists for UK courts to rule on issues covered by the ECHR which makes it easier for both the citizen and the government. Scrapping the UK human rights act which Teresa May is so keen on would cause a massive rise in appeals to Strasbourg. I suspect, as with the psycho-active substances bill, even if such a bill gets voted through once the legal people at the Home Office look at it they'll end up scrapping it as un-workable.
  5. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award


    As a primer for everyone!
  6. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Europe helps protect British workers from Dickensian mill owners. That's why so many want us to leave.

  7. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    I'm voting to stay because I have enjoyed moving and working around Europe at will in recent years. And because the arguments about "loss of sovereignty" are idiotic.
  8. boards

    boards Its all in the reflexes!

    You don't have to be in the EU to move around Europe though do you? Aren't Switzerland and Scandinavia under different rules?
  9. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Except they don't really get a better deal than us (certainly Norway doesn't) while not having a seat at the table. If you want the perks, you have to make the concessions and play by their rules, in which case we're better in.
  10. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    To be able to work in other countries is one of the key parts of the EU agreement. I'm doing it right now.
  11. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Depends which country.

    Sweden and Denmark are in the EU. Finland is too if you include them in the term Scandinavia. Norway isn't in the EU. Sweden and Denmark use their own currency, Finland uses the Euro.

    But they also have the "Nordic Agreement" or whatever they call it these days, so it's a bit like a mini-EU. And that's how Norway gets to benefit a bit from the EU and keep all their piles of oil money to themselves! The swine.
  12. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Norway pays a similar amount per capita to the EU as us I believe.
  13. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    And that Norway trade deal involved them signing up to Schengen. So in order to get the same deal as Norway, we would have to give up even more border control than we do at the moment - the irony.
  14. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Didn't know that. I should stop listening to the locals moan about Norway and it's money. :)

    I got my permanent residence status so long ago that I can't exactly remember how the system worked...but...I was getting all these temporary residency permits and IIRR you get a choice of how long you want the permit for, let's say it goes in one, two, five, ten years periods. I'd just walk down the police station, tell them what I want, show my passport and pay a bit of cash, the person behind the desk would stamp a piece of paper and off I'd go. Compare that to the trauma my South African workmate had every time he went down there, and he was married with a kid. And he paid a small fortune for the stamps.

    After five years the person behind the desk told me it was a bit of a waste of time coming back every few years and as I'd had temp. residency for five years and was an EU citizen, I should just get permanent residency. So I did...passport, pay, stamp and I was out.

    But I still had health care, unemployment and other benefits before I became a permanent resident. Thank you EU!

    A friend of mine got their PR after about three years due to their work. So I think the time needed before getting your permanent resident stamps is flexible.

    By law and on paper, the reality is very different (it's a very xenophobic country), I get the same treatment, benefits and rights as a Finn does. I think the only thing I can't do is vote for the presidency, but the president here is just a figure head and doesn't really do anything when it comes to decision making etc etc, more like the UK royal family than the US president. So I don't really care about that.

    So yeah, being in the EU definitely benefits me on a personal level. I think I'll have to move on if work doesn't pick up (the countries economy is in a mess) and being in the EU will make that a lot easier if I choose to stay in Europe, which I want to.

    Europe. It's ace!
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016
  15. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Some people think that we have not been able to negotiate a good deal in Europe.

    Seems to me the problem is not with Europe but with our negotiating skills.

    How will leaving Europe improve our negotiating skills?
  16. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Oh Norway is massively rich, as you'd expect for a country with a small population and loads of oil.
  17. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Yeah. But the "joke" is, I know know better, that they have tons of money and benefit from the Nordic agreement and EU and don't contribute as much. But there's a lot of rivalry between the countries here.

    Off topic. I saw a documentary about Norway a few years ago that discussed the suicide rate there and why it was pretty high. The general opinion was that there's a lot of money in the country, good education and work opportunities, brilliant benefits if you can't work and everything is just so easy that there is no challenge in life, so people get bored and frustrated and top themselves.

    Maybe it's true. I dunno, but I thought it would be more down to the crappy Scandinavian pop music, home brew and dark nights myself.
  18. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Well they are idiotic in a way. Because we all know that if push ever really comes to shove we'll tell them to stick it in double quick time.
    I mean what is Sovereignty in real terms anyway. As long as we get to keep our own guns and warplanes, armies etc. Then I'm good.
  19. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I'd prefer we give control of that stuff to a more responsible nation.
  20. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Ze Germans have an awesome record. Yes I went there :D

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