I've been doing Dan VanZ's isometric stretching routine for more than a year (started October 2010- see here if you're not familiar with it http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96381). I've had to stop and before i explain why i'd like to give you a rundown of my journey. I'm 47 years old and have been training Wado Ryu for 7 years. I have a fairly fit lifestyle, non smoker, rarely drink, lots of outdoor exercise and low fat vegetarian diet. I sarted the isometric routine as a way of increasing flexiblity in my hips, particularly for high roundhouse kicks. Started October 2010. Level 10 December 2010. Had a few 'hiccups' with muscle strain and by February 2011 i had stopped with the side stretches as my flexibility and general mobility in that direction was becoming more painful and less flexible. By June 2011 i had reached level 19 and had begun including other leg strengthening exercises as part of my stretching routine- lunges, squats etc. No major problems, By August i was at level 24, carrying 20 KG. Reached 30 kg by October 2010.By this time, i was experiencing some joint pain and discomfort, but was still not too bad. Started training with 33 kg by the end of October 2010 and gave up at the start of December, returning to level 15 (no weights) and am still doing that. Doing splits with 33 kg was ok for my legs, but was giving me problems with my back and hips- discomfort, stiffness and reduction in dynamic flexibility in my hips and some serious problems with an existing back condition (hyperflexive ligaments between my ribs). At this stage i was still well away from full splits, my groin still remaining a good 10cm above the floor at maximal stretch. So now, i am still doing isometrics with no weights, front and side, which allows me to concentrate on the stretching part rather than the 'straining against weight' part. I've also included additional joint rotations and hip flexing exercises as part of this routine. My general fitness is still good and although i'm definitely higher off the ground when stretching (compared to with weights), my hips are more comfortable and my kicks are still sufficiently higher and dynamically better than before i started the programme. My main conclusion from this- Isometrics (strength exercises) alone are not sufficient to increase dynamic flexibility (this may not be scientifically conclusive, but it has been true for me). So, what can i do now? I'm going to take another look at Kurtz and see what other people say whilst continuing my current programme, possibly with a return to weights again, depending on my back condition and how my hips respond. I'm also going to start a training log on MAP tomorrow. Any help or comments are appreciated.
yeah, dynamic movements and isometric stretching are two totally different things. isometrics will get your antagonist muscles to relax and extend safely, reducing risk of tears with explosive extension, but they have pretty much nothing else to do with your ability to get the limb to the desired position by muscle action alone. being flexible enough to do splits will not make you able to kick high if you don't have the hip and core strength necessary to lift your leg that high, although it will help you to not tear your adductors and hamstrings when you do. you need to do squats, leg raises and slow kicking if you want good dynamic mobility.
as for finishing the splits, try something to aid your feet in sliding. i use pieces of cardboard under my feet, so perhaps that'll be of use to you. also, please do film yourself doing a set to see if there's anything that might be externally visible that's holding back your flexibility
Very interesting feedback ArthurKing, thank you. Why do you really want to do the splits for? Vanity? If you can kick above head level, it is fine; it is unlikely you'll ever face an 8 feet giant, and if you do, you can always stomp on his foot, or kick his groin... Osu!
Arthur, you should be performing "power splits" (google them), static stretching for about 15 minutes a day per joint or muscle group such as side splits (for absolute best results afaik, but 10 minutes will be good too), and "inverted adductor flies (google them, too). Sorry for the "google it" comments, but it's good for you to google it.
Thanks for the comments guys. Fish- being including slow kicks, static kicks, planks and leg raises as part of my routine since level 19/June 2010 to improve core strength. That's not really the issue as my kicks have improved, but still no splits. Old Kyokushin- LOL man, vanity...err...kind of yes i guess. The whole point of doing this routine was to improve height and general technical competancy in kicks, especially roundhouse kicks. Somewhere along the line, taking Dan's routine at face value, it became a quest for the splits. I'm not a quitter and i guess failing to achieve was getting to my pride? I realise high kicks are not necessary for good self defence but they are necessary for me to gain my teaching qualifications for Wado, which is one of my ambitions. I guess also that being an old fella coming to this late means i want to try and keep up with some of the younger ones at my club (more pride?) Patrick Smith- Cheers. i will be googling later today.
Old Kyokushin, keep in mind that having the splits doesn't only mean you can kick straight up (if you're strong enough) but also that you can kick very far OUT, meaning you have a much, much longer range than someone might expect. For example: Vs. The first guy has a mind blowingly beautiful kick... *mind blown* But look at how much range he has with a kick that's going straight up. There's no range. If you compare that with the second picture, the one with Chuck Norris in it, you can see that Norris is leaning forward into the kick, probably gaining about two-three feet of range. It's a high-commitment attack (lunge kick), but it has a lot of potential to take someone off guard. Clearly the first guy can lean into his kick and be just as effective as Norris, but it's a good example pic. I can almost 100 percent assure you, Arthur, that your problem is adductor full ROM strength. Google those exercises I listed before and start doing them 2-3 times a week in conjunction with the iso's and you will improve vastly. FWIW
Being an "old kyokushin" person, I'd've thought you'd see the point - don't you guys try and knock each other out with head kicks from close range punching distance? Surely that takes a level of leg flexibility approaching the splits?
I see your point & I don't contest it. Personally, I prefer gaining range with a bit of footwork, rather than fully commit to a kamikaze waza... what happens when my adversary sidesteps my lunge kick and takes my head out with a knee? Yes Moosey, I agree. The key work IMHO is "flexibility approaching the splits". Which is where the OP is at: 10 cm from the floor on side splits is really very very close... how much more reach or angle can he get with another 4 inches? ........ Especially when it seems that these last 10 cm are costing him a lot. Disclaimer: I have nothing against the splits, I even find them very, very cool. However, I also think that you need to know with precision what you are training for. Are you training to improve your kicks? ....or to look cool? Both are fine as long as you don't tell yourself bed time stories. Osu!
LOL - yes, in the best of all possible worlds... But, isn't that asking for a little bit too much ? Osu!
well, take enough knees to the head and eventually you get enough experience points to upgrade to a titanium skull plate.
Old Kyokushin-I'm currently at 8" on front splits (without weights), considerably more on side splits but then i haven't really been working side splits for a while. My aim is definitely to improve range of kicks first and to look cool second. FishOD- quick question, now that i'm back working on side splits (and related to your 'deep squats' thread), should i be looking to keep my back straight up and my bum pushed out or is it ok to lean forward, bringing my elbows to the floor (making sure i'm bending at the base of my spine and not curving in the middle)?
bum out, always. if you're leaning forwards if means that there is something that didn't quite stretch (probably hip flexors), so you're essentially flexing your legs forwards instead of to the side. same deal with the squat, and even with holding a butterfly stretch with your back straight.
About 12 months ago (October '13), I started to have serious pain in my hip joints and lower back, Walking, sitting and lying down were all painful, running was impossible. My hip flexibility was reduced and roundhouse kicks became uncomfortable and seriously lower in height. When I went to see my Doctor (I had already given up my running and had reduced my other home training, keeping to 2 Karate sessions per week) he was frankly horrified about my Isometric routine and suggested I take a rest from all the more physical aspects of my training for at least a couple of weeks to see if my joints would recover from what he considered to be serious overtraining. My job had also changed and although I have always had a fairly physical outdoor sort of life, in addition I was now earning most of my living doing labouring/gardening/odd jobbing kind of work, some of which was extremely physical (moving tons of soil by barrow and shovel and a lot of heavy digging). A year later and my workload is not quite as heavy as it was and i'm just returning to 1 six mile run per week, have started doing regular yoga joint manipulation exercises and have started attending a local gym. I still have pain on a regular basis and my height range for kicks is still less than it was. I do no isometrics for my hips. Around about this same time my sensei changed the pricing system for the club in a move which was clearly unpopular and we lost about one third our membership. We now only have 3 adults attending (including me) on a regular basis which put paid to my plans for 50 man Kumite. Why am I telling you all this? I, and my Doctor, believe the stress on my hip joints and surrounding tissue from 3 years of Isometrics was a major factor in the development of this problem. I would advise anyone embarking on any Isometric training to ensure adequate recovery time and include a proper programme of supplementary physio/yoga style exercises in order to help the joints make repairs and maintain good joint health. Get good professional, 'hands on' advice on training if you can, online advice is simply too distant and too general. Take care everyone. I can recommend a book of joint health exercises but not sure if this would constitute advertising?
You should have stopped isometrics altogether if you were suffering muscle strains (I used the plural because you said "a few") and your flexibility was getting worse. Most (probably all, I don't have exact figures to hand) people I taught were in full splits by level 19 of that plan. You would have been better off doing the leg exercises back when you should have stopped isometrics at level 10. At all times in any type of training (and I say this almost every time I advise people on this forum), the most important thing anyone can do is listen to their body. Again, you felt pain and discomfort but continued. Any feelings of pain, discomfort, or instability, in this or any other training program are reason enough to stop, rest, and investigate the potential cause(s) if those feelings continue or get worse after several weeks. The program was capped at 30 kg. You should have looked at other reasons why you were not making progress, e.g. improper alignment, poor sliding surfaces, and so on. Again - and I can't reiterate this enough - reduction in progress or the onset of pain/discomfort is reason enough to stop and re-assess your training, no matter how small those symptoms might be. You should also have probably given this method a second thought before starting as you had an existing medical condition that could potentially have been aggravated by carrying weights on your back in an awkward position. 10cm from the floor is not that far at all and you should have been hitting full splits within a matter of weeks. Isometrics will not produce a significant improvement in dynamic flexibility, unless you use them (isometrics) to produce a flexibility reserve exceeding 50o that of your dynamic flexibility limit (i.e. you pretty much have to be doing oversplits if you want to kick high and fast without doing dynamic stretches). I have always said that isometrics will produce stagnation in strength gains (and therefore flexibility gains) within 6-8 weeks if the method is not adjusted to bring about further stress after the body adapts to the current demands. Hence why adding weights (or tensing harder and longer) over time is crucial. I understand you might be trying to point the finger of blame for your condition at the isometric program I outlined. But you continued to train despite your body telling you it wasn't happy with what you were doing, and you have continued a sport (karate) which places the hips and back under substantial stress throughout this time. Also: Isometrics - like any form of physical training - are stressful to the body (the body gets stronger because it adapts to stress). And like anything else, if you continue through pain you will only get problems. I doubt the isometrics are solely to blame here, as you have said you were also doing karate (improper technique can cause biomechanical problems) and a very physically demanding job. I echo your sentiment that live training is always better than the Internet or any other type of media based education. It sounds like aggressive progression is the culprit rather than the actual methodology (as is usually the case). I don't mean to sound unsympathetic. It's unfortunate you've experienced the health problems you described. Any type of physical exercise (especially for people with pre-existing conditions like yourself) should be approached conservatively.
VZ, my friend, i'm not taking a pop at you or your training methods, this is why I have tried to be frank and transparent about the other factors involved in my issues. My desire is that no one else goes through what I have and it seems to me that a lot of people are likely to be making the kind of errors or misunderstandings that I have made (through lack of 'hands on' correction?) and are storing up problems for the future. The book I recommend is 'Keep your joints young' by Sarah Key.
