Ending at the Beginning?

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by KickChick, Nov 1, 2004.

  1. Mr. Anderson

    Mr. Anderson Valued Member

    Not technically the encyclopedia, but in the 1968 version of Taekwon-do, General Choi wrote the following in Part 5, Patterns in Taekwon-do (hyong). "The following points must be borne in mind in performing the patterns:
    1. Performance of each pattern must be ended at the starting point (x)." He then goes on to add another 5 points regarding how forms are to be performed.

    One caveat though is this is when there were only 20 defined patterns, consisting of Chon-ji, Tan-gun, To-san, Won-Hyo, Yul-Kok, Chung-Gun, Toi-Gye, Hwa-Rang, Chung-Mu, Kwang-Gae, Po-Un, Kae-Baek, Yu-Sin, Chung-Jang, Ul-Ji, Sam-Il, Choi-Yong, Ko-Dang, Se-Jong, and Tong-Il. There have been additions and modifications since 1968 as I know you are already aware.
  2. carlos

    carlos MAP Hoo Flung Dung Expert Supporter

    I was always under the impresstion the they were fixed stance punches in Choong Gun. That explains why I have trouble finishing on the start point on that pattern.

    I have no problem with the others though - but I am only up to Choong Moo.
  3. Nick K

    Nick K Sometimes a Valued Member


    Now that's why I signed up to this site! I reckon it's the kick
    Thank you very much!
  4. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member

    ;) Well I'm very happy I started this discussion seeing that I am not the only one gaining some much needed clarification concerning forms performance.

    Yes I do have the Legacy CD's NRees and I can only hope to be able to perform my forms as shown on them ... yes, I have noticed they begin and end on same spot.

    I have a big "X" in duct tape on my carpet here and will continue to try to get my feet back on target in the end! I am rather inconsistent and do need to constantly work at this I'm afraid.

    This "beginning & ending in same spot" is not stressed very much in class although it is a goal to strive to achieve. We refer to this book quite often in class.....The Complete Tae Kwon Do Hyung (Complete Tae Kwon Do Hyung) The Complete Tae Kwon Do Hyung (Complete Tae Kwon Do Hyung)

    .... and have found a number of discrepencies that make it impossible in certain forms to return to the exact same starting point.
  5. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Hey... is that GM Hee Il Cho's book(s)? That's what we use for reference as well!
  6. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member

    Yes it is Thomas.

    Have you found some of the explanations rather confusing at times?

    We've thumbed thru the books so many times that the pages are falling out!
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    We've found that he does them a bit differently than other sources!!!! Sometimes they can be a bit tough to follow, but for the price and access, I do like them a lot.
  8. Tosh

    Tosh Renegade of Funk

    Keine Probleme, always happy to help :D

    Now..... one two , jump , 2-direction, diagonal stance...... awwww nuts! ;)
  9. Lithanwif

    Lithanwif Human Punchbag

    Due to my amazing trick knee ( pick a card any card ) I almost never end up back on the same spot as there is an assymetry in my stances/movements. I have discussed this with my instructor, and he says I should do it perfectly when I can and slightly shorter due to not being able to take the weight when required. This of course leads to me ending up about a foot off starting position, but understandable due to my body mechanics ( sucks teeth, "it's his big end luv!, we can fix it but it'll cost ya!". If'n I could I would and maybe just maybe someday I will. When I can afford that plastic adidas knee I promise myself every christmas.
  10. Tosh

    Tosh Renegade of Funk

    This is one of the downfalls of taking it out of a book.

    How many times have I read,

    "RF down to C"

    ...and not been clear as to how the foot should actually be placed (foot to foot, in the next stance etc) it's driven me barmy.

    The last two kicks in Choong-Moo are an excellent example of where incorrect foot work will leave you off the mark and there's numbers of volumes that explain it poorly.
  11. TKD2ndDan

    TKD2ndDan New Member

    It depends, I have been in Tae Kwon Do for 10 years, and I have certainly come among katas where you will finish in a different spot than you began. I competed in the Team USA national qualifiers and had no problems with begining in the same spot and ending, the judges didn't seem to care about that aspect, they seem to care about the way you perform each punch, kick, stance, ect.
  12. d33pthought

    d33pthought New Member

    The palgues I know so far, admittedly I only know two (they should start me on the third next week, or I'll have to start pulling teeth for it), never finish where they begin. Sure, they're symmetrical to a degree, but they seem to be broken down into movement segments. For example, in palgue Il Jang, you start with a down-block + inner-forearm block to the left but you end with that combination going to the right. Same goes with Yi Jang. There are asymmetrical move segments in between, but the end and beginning seem to match in all except the direction they face.
  13. angry

    angry Valued Member

    If you consider the start and finish as the jumbi posistion all palgwe forms should start and finish in the same spot. Palgwe 3 (sam jang) always seem to be one step behind though.
  14. jvkt

    jvkt New Member

    As far as I know, when you perform a taeguk poomse, you are supposed to end up where you started your form. It is not something we will fail a student for though.

    Our school is very sport oriented and mostly competes at tournaments that follow USTU rules. And according the the USTU referee manual, ending in the same spot you began is the first technical criteria. The major criterias are proper execution of movements, power, etc. So if you have two compeitiors that look like mirror images of each other but one ends slightly off mark, you would give the other person a slight point advantage.

    With that said, I still find it difficult to end my taeguk IL-Jang in the same sport I started. :eek:
  15. Tosh

    Tosh Renegade of Funk

    Perhaps because changing where your end up is far easier to correct than the way you kick and punch ;)

    At the end of the day, especially in Team comp, it's the least of your worries for competition. As has already been mentioned, something to discriminate two very similar patterns.

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