End of the world, science has agreed?

I've taken 4 quarters of calculus, diff EQ's, and now taking linear algebra. Not super far, but I can tell it will only get deeper and weirder.

 

Guess what you're doing now? Using logic. Thank you for proving my point.

No, God isn't. That's the difference. The only evidence for God is in some moldy old book that people disagree about. Logic is universal. When you see someone get electrocuted to death when they try to open a door, you think to yourself "Hmm... better not open that door.", not because God is warning you, but because it is logical.

If you can't measure it, how do you know it has an effect? As in, I know that when I push a box, it moves. Hence my pushing makes it move. I can measure it moving, so I know it's true. If you can't measure emotion, the heart, the soul, etc. how do you know if religion has any effect on it?

 

It sure does.

 

But these people DID experience positive effects. They went to Heaven. That's about as positive as you can get.

 

Just because something has an effect, does not mean your reasoning for its cause is acurate. Unless you can physically measure it, you don't really know.

For example, If I kick someone in the face, and he gets angry, I could not acurately say "He's angry because I showed violence towards him" because he could be angry for a number of reasons. Maybe anger is a way to express pain for that person. Maybe the kick in his face, made him late for work, and now hes angry for that reason. Etc.

Stupid example, I know, but it still illustrates how its impossible to measure something as complicated as emotions and the state of someones lives.

Yes, some people have had positive experiences with Religion. Although, you cannot say that is always true for everyone, even if it appears so.

I personally enjoy going to Church. I don't dislike people for their believes, and I find it all very interesting and most people I have met at Churches were very friendly, and I have made some really good friends there. That being said, you cannot suggest that I have positive experiences with Religion (even if it may appear so sometimes).

I personally have some very negative experiences with Religion. I grew up in a 3rd world country where racism and slavery was accepted. I was taught that God loves us all equally, but the black people aren't allowed to sit on the white peoples benches, etc. As a little kid, this confused the crap out of me.

Is this really the Religions fault ? Of course not. Once again, people are the relevant factor.

So, I think "changed lives" is just a little bit vague as a way to confirm that Religion has a real effect on peoples lives.

 

You are missing an important little phrase- and that phrase would be "In my opinion" as in, "There is no evidence for God, IN MY OPINION." Other's have come to a different conclusion. Further, you ignoring several religions on the basis of arguing against the Bible.

Keep i mind that there such a thing as qualitative data, and it is held together with quatitative data as scientific evidence. Thus, one can use qualitative data to justify the existance of something. So for you to say unmeasureable dat in not good is a misnomer.

 

Well of course there is! It's a little known fact that Osama Bin Laden will go to Heaven. Won't that be hilarious? What will he talk about with all those people he killed?

 

My mistake. I thought that evidence went beyond opinion, and was fact regardless of who looks at it. What was I thinking?

So religion has an impact on a person's life you're saying, not believing in God? Cool. That pretty much proves my point that God has nothing to do with it.

 

I'm trying to understand you . . . but it just doesn't seem like you are proving anything at all Poop-Loops. What the heck is your point anyways, just in case I missed it.

 

Evidence might, but not interpretation of said evidence. You have already made up your mind, so all presented evidence fits into that preconceived notion. Other's looked at the same evidence and came to a different interpretation. Your misplaced arrogance is that you are absolutely correct, when in truth- you might not be correct. Also, just because you BELIEVE something does not mean 1.) that it is true and 2.) that everyone must be forced to believe as you do.

And as for the second part- please reword as I do not understand your point.

 

Wrong. I haven't seen any evidence, that's why I made up my mind. An agnostic would have said "well, I don't know", but I decided to just say "nope." Give me evidence, and I'll start believing.

What evidence?

Of course I might be wrong. So far, I see no reason for being wrong, though.

You said I put a bunch of religions aside because I was just talking about the Bible. So you are basically saying all religions have some effect, even those without God.

 

Most religions have some form of devinity- in point of fact, I do not know of a single religion off hand that is without a beleif in the devine in some form or other. One might suggest Buddism, however, its most common forms of practice do have a connection to some sort of devine. I do not, nor I have ever made, the claim that I believe that Christianity is the only way to worship- about that I tend towards agnostic beliefs. I am Christian because it is my culture to be so, just as a Muslim is Muslim because of where they are born and how they are raised. So as far as I personally can see, your second arguement is moot.

Now then, returning to evidence. You have been given evidence by others- all I can do is give my personal evidence, which is I believe because of the connection I feel to others and the connection I feel to what I call or believe to be God- in what ever form. You believe that is not sufficient evidence- to which I say, so be it. However, why should I believe your arguement? Why should you believe that I have to believe your arguement? Further, I do not see your arguements as any more valid then other people's arguements for the existance of God. So, in the end- what makes you the expert on the existance of God? What gives you the arrogance to believe that you have the right to say to other's that their belief is sillier then yours? For the most part in answering that, you seem to constantly want to return to the Bible and cite that as your reason against religion or God. That is an invalid arguement to my mind. Its like pointing to the Illiad and saying that because some of the poem could not have happened, Sparta could not have truely existed.

 

So people go to heaven or hell based on where they are born and raised?

Hahaha nice try. I already used an example from the Illiad, but it was that since the Illiad is just as old and moldy as the Bible, does that mean I need to give a sacrafice to Poseidon before I go home before every battle?

The places were real, the God wasn't. That's my point.

You "feeling" something is not evidence of there being a God. People take LSD and report religious experiences. Guess what happens on LSD? Your brain goes berserk for a while.

They don't have to believe anything I say because I'm not saying anything. They need to give ME proof, not the other way around.

 

No, they don't. I believe in God. I do not NEED to prove it to you are anyone else. You are making the assumption that you need proof. I choose to have faith. You are the one who cannot accept that other's choose to believe. You are the one with the problem with faith and God.

And please- take a few seconds and point out exactly where I said anyone was going to Hell for not believing exactly the way I do.

 

Yes, because it is completely against logic. You wouldn't boil your socks just because the mail man drove by, would you? Then why believe in an imaginary being who never does anything?

You said people are raised Muslim or Christian, so it's not a big deal. Except that there can only be 1 "true" religion. The ones born to the wrong religion go to hell, then.

 

It's against YOUR logic- not logic in general. And as for the other- you said it. Not me.

 

Sorry wry, I have to disagree on that one, its not against just Poop-Loops logic but quite alot of ppls, hence there must be some truth in it not being that logical. Otherwise atheism and agonism wouldn't exist.

Christian