Eight Pattern Wing Chun Book

It's hardly desparate for someone to ask you to provide evidence to support assertions you've made. I think it's actually quite reasonable. The fact that this immediately makes those who do this your enemy is extremely telling.

 

Is there something that you do different in your style of Wing Chun that causes techniques to work where it would appear that they won't?
I mean many of your detractors in this thread move against full resistance every day of training. Even if they fall into the "sport trap" of not using dangerous techniques(debatable, but for another debate), what they do use is proven every single day in training. They obviously have an understanding of the basics of how fighting works, how to generate power, etc.

For them to have grossly misjudged your school's movement, you must do something sufficiently different from the sport arts that causes it to work in the absence of what they consider good fundamentals. What is it? Can you explain it in a post or post a video outlining it?

 

no, it is actually quite common that people are unable to see anything much in soft wing chun styles like ours.

 

Value is value and "soft and hard" are arbitrary distinctions made by those who lack experience.

I am a big fan of certain stylists such as Wang Shu Jin, and my own Si Hing is a Chen style disciple. We use WC in our system, but not dogmatic adherence to it,and we modify it so it actually works in a combative situation against someone other than a compliant partner.

Even putting aside the "WC sucks" rhetoric that inevitably surface in these threads, your own particular take on it has weak structure, poor pressure, loose uke and stylistic holes a mile wide. I doubt many of the claims you have made about skill and practitoner background purely on the back of the videos alone.

Words can be deceptive, background and lineage fabricated, but body mechanics can never lie

 

See, I like the foot-sweeping in the video. It comes in under the radar, and against an opponent who doesn't spot it coming it gives you the chance of putting the fight massively in your favour (you're standing up, and he's lying on the ground in front of you).

But I hate how blatantly obvious it is that that student is just taking a fall -unless of course he does have some balance problems like our lovely Blade - watching it in slow motion you can see the second that almost any sweep is presented the dude just gives up and has already decided that he is going to stumble around like a buffoon. The leg getting swept just goes instantaneously limp and the other leg and torso go stiff as a rock to ensure maximum clumsiness and a definite fall/posture breaking tumble.

Now, speaking as someone who doesn't really do much in the way of trapping in his usual training routine -apart from the occasional DBMA stuff- I can actually see some things in there that would look quite good and be worth developing if only it wasn't being demonstrated on a student who is so clearly over-compensating to make his friends look cool.

It doesn't look cool when people take deliberate prat-falls during technical demonstrations to please fellow students and instructors, it just looks fake as hell and makes everyone question the seriousness of the practitioners demonstrating.

 

The funny thing is that I would have said something along the same lines just a few years ago. but you cannot imagine the precision and timing these guys have without a live experience. you can hardly see any "structure" or power. but think about this for a second: what good is "structure" if the opponent can identify it?

 

Strawman - you are not talking about an opponent you are talking about outside observers and, if I may toot my own trumpet, a pretty experienced one at that. Same goes for the majority of the other commentators on here.

Martial arts cannot hide behind mysticism, myth and bunk anymore in this world. And if the Emperor is naked no matter how much you try and praised the quality of the material he is still a fool

 

Not buying it, the technique looks interesting but the student needs some acting classes (or if he was being serious, needs to see a doctor about his balance issues).

As far as structure goes, good structure should be visible at the very least to the outsiders. Good structure is proper alignment of the body, in this video the alignment of the bodies demonstrated in motion doesn't explain why that guy keeps going flying.

 

maybe you didn't know that these videos are not made to demonstrate skills but as learning aid for the student.

and about that structure thing: believe it or not, the moment they hit you, they feel like a concrete wall. the rest of the time you just can't properly get to them.

about the "sweeps": all of them are actually vicious attacks to joints (ankle mainly). it is not really important if the opponent falls or not. however, if the timing is very good, the opponent will most probably fall or at least lose his balance.

keep in mind that you are seeing idealized "eight pattern wing chun vs. eight pattern wing chun" exercises, not a demo or anything else. and these exercises are not done in the way they are supposed to be done for exercising, they are done so that the sequences and mechanics of the movements can easily be seen without too much exaggeration of movements.

 

Doesn't explain why the reciever is falling over himself.

Maybe, maybe not.. I'm skeptical.

I'm not questioning the effectiveness of the sweeps, I'm questioning the ludicris manner in which the guy in the video is responding to them.

This is the fundamental problem, you are telling me those techniques are being executed with a kind of leverage that can only be felt, never seen. I don't believe in the kind of leverage. That kind of leverage is magic, not martial arts.

 

You might still not believe it, but - just for example - in the following video, despite acting with minimal power and reduced speed, and despite the movements being scripted (as opposed to how we usually practise this), one of the two was hit unconscious during the filming, due to a tiny mistake.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55eYB4ME1SM"]Chi Sau Section 3 - YouTube[/ame]

This is not magic of course. The fact that you cannot see the power is part of the advanced skills. (in case of these videos however, it is also a safety matter that the movements are executed with very little power if at all AGAIN: THIS IS SEQUENCE LEARNING MATERIAL, NO POSING) Unfortunately, people like you may choose to never believe it and never try it out. But you should know, that there are many things, which can only be felt and not seen, no matter how much of an "youtube martial arts analyst" you think you are.

"Structure" is important, but it is just a small step on the path to actual wing chun, which is without any form or structure. Bruce Lee knew this, despite having only learned a small part of wing chun.

 

Nonsense

Once again the issue is that there is NOTHING you show as being effective outside other 8 Pattern guys. The structure is still loose and sloppy - and yes I am meaning from a WC perspective not a general MA perspective. "Felt and not seen"? Please! That is more empty posturing used to deflect attention away from the lack of quality mechanics.

Look, I do not mind this being a journey toward excellence in an art, and self-improvement - essentially that the perpetual journey we are all on. But to tell me things to the effect that someone was KO'd for real shows either they were compliant (like chi KO participants), fibbing (perish the thought) or have worse punch resistance than your average 8 year old

 

In that case I would offer you to try out how a piercing elbow to your temple feels. ANY wing chun stylist (who advanced at least to biu ji level) will most probably KO you at the first attempt.

I pity you for your narrow vision. But maybe one day you will meet someone who can open your eyes.

Once again I am deeply puzzled by the fact that you seem to be resistant to my explanation that the videos show WING CHUN VS. WING CHUN EXERCISES.... This is not even effective against other 8PWC people, it is an EXERCISE! It is effective for training certain skills though.

 

PS: not being a true native speaker it took me a couple of minutes to get what you mean by Chi KO participants. I get it now. Yes, for you probably our whole style looks like what certain Systema Hocus Pocus crooks do with their willful marionettes.

Again, I can understand that most people, especially if they are in full contact, have a hard time seeing anything fight relevant in any wing chun style but the ultra hard ones. You might like Kong Chi Keung, though. Even if from a wing chun perspective he is still quite stiff and predictable, he (like many of us) is experienced in real fighting as well as in full contact competition fighting.

And again, there are things in this world which cannot be seen and are still true. But they will always remain secrets to the one, who doesn't really want to know.

 

*yawn* yeah, yeah yeah - one day I will feel the deadly.......until then I will just have to keep my feet in reality I suppose

 

I'd take that bet. I'm sure it wouldn't be pleasant but I'd live with that.

 

You could live with the guilt of smearing them along the mat and shattering their dreams? Cool! :evil:

 

How dare you say that about Systema!

It is used by Russian special forces and many people believe in its effectiveness. There are many things, which can only be felt and not seen, no matter how much of an "youtube martial arts analyst" you think you are.

People like you may choose to never believe it and never try it out.

Without the correct background you have no right to criticize an advanced martial art like Systema.

 

Burn baby burn!!!

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzuuxgHxzns&list=PL093A6E8F236594A9&index=3&feature=plpp_video"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzuuxgHxzns&list=PL093A6E8F236594A9&index=3&feature=plpp_video[/ame]