This is intersting to me: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke6PFO1uypg"]Soke Masaaki Hatsumi - Koku - YouTube[/ame] In the screen grab below, what is the reasoning behind leaving the guard down with the opponent's right arm able to reach your head?
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Hi David, From what I know of this technique: a. The Uke is off balance due to the shuto to the arm. b. The Arm is likely out of action due to the shuto. C. Soke is in range and presenting a target for the kick, so as to control uke into kicking, ready for the counter. Its all about playing the opponent as I see it.
Thanks, though they are reasons why you may get away with it, rather than why it is a good idea. Even though the opponent is unlikely to be able to strike to any great effect from there, I would be concerned about them hooking my neck and bringing me down with them as I kick their leg out. Just a thought...
I think that might be difficult, if I remember I will run through that scenario with an uke at training this week and see if its a possibility and what the likely outcome could be. Some times we do put our head in range but then it is a different response if its attacked.
Sure, they'd have to be quick and good at thinking on their toes, but it's possible. That was just what stuck out to me, I could think of other apparent dangers. Cool Ok.
Here is what the Japanese in the back of the book says 一切の事物を包容してその存在をさまたげない無為法、空間。(this part is not translated in the english) 敵が右手拳で面に突き来る。我、左腕にて敵の右拳を受け、忽ち右手刀にて右手の下の星を打ち折る。 Opponent comes with right thrust to face. I, with my left arm receive the right fist and immediately strike to (here we wonder... is it) 1) the lower Hoshi kyusho, 2) below the Hoshi Kyusho, to break. 敵が右足にて蹴り込みに来る。我、左足にて敵の右足下より蹴り上る。同時に左手拇指にて敵の胸の仏滅に当て込んで残心。 Opponent kicks in with right foot. I, with my left foot kick up from below. At the same time striking into the butsumetsu kyusho on his chest with my left thumb. Zanshin.
It seems we´ve gotten stuck at the shuto. I have been shown all kinds of versions by different teachers; striking from below, striking from above as well as striking from the side. The problem with relying on how Hatsumi sensei shows it, in hombu or in videos, is that you cannot rely on what he is showing since, in my opinion, he isnt so much teaching as he is "exploring" the nine ryu-ha these days. Also: dont trust everything Soke says, he is a ninja after all! In order to get the correct "feeling" for the nine ryu-ha you have to get good Contact to one of the original shihans, an advise PR has allready given a couple of times. My understanding these days is that there are levels of Koku with different ways of attacking Uke. The shuto strike as I was taught last time in Japan was more to the side/diagonally down. The way of executing the shuto creates a special effect on Ukes body structure (apart from hurting like hell and maybe even freezing the arm for a short while). This in turn prevents Uke from an immediate left follow up. In the best of Worlds it will stop his attacks for a second, giving you the chance to go straight in and finish him of (henka of course). If you are dealing with a skilled martial artist or a crazy dude, he may come at you with the kick though, so the waza continues on to the next counter. Regards / Skuggvarg
Benkyoka - Thanks for this. Would you mind explaining the bit that is not translated - my guess is that it explains the attitude, or essence of the technique which should be explored by both Tori and Uke alongside the 'mechanics' of the movements. Does this part give any insight to managing the Kukan (空間 - from your post), or simply refer to using it ? The direction of the Shuto in the technique changes the occupied and unoccupied space of the interaction and hitting in some directions 'fills' that empty space - which 'could' be considered wrong. Otherwise, maybe the technique would be called something else....... cheers ! DC
And the English translation has several mistakes as well but I doubt those are on purpose. The text at the back of the book for Koku matches the densho that I have seen.
and he says the densho is deliberately left open so as not to be restrictive and also the rest is kuden. Some people see it a certain way once and think that is "the" way, when in fact Soke might just be showing "a" way it can be done.
Frankly, I am more interested in what the shihan (Ishizuka, Nagato, etc.) have to say and show about these basic kata than what Soke says. My level is such that I benefit more from that I believe. Also, Hatsumi Sensei says a lot of different things to different people, and I would trust only the judgement of his closest students in translating this and passing this on. Most of whom for some reason were never given a 15th dan by the way... Regards, Tom.
This seems strange to me, so I take it you want to learn Soke's art but you are “more interested in what the senior Shihan have to say”? I see it as Soke as the source and the senior Shihan the conduit, I have a close relationship with a couple of the senior shihan but I train and learn from the others as I find it very practical to get different perspectives. For instance with Koku I gleaned different understandings of the shuto from one shihan and the boshiken from another. But the true understanding has to come from Soke as it is his art we are learning. I think some people are fooled by certain ”academics” who claim to have the knowledge, but you can’t get understanding from books, as Soke says you don’t carry books into battle. But knowledge is only a small part of it, the rest is practice. For instance you only really learn to drive after you pass your driving test. Interesting you mention about 15th Dan, please can you explain why this is relevant? Thank you
So Soke and you have a close personal, student/teacher relationship where he personally ensures your understanding is correct? If you aren't receiving direction from a teacher can it be said you are receiving instruction from them?
Because in my opinion, learning koryu arts works by cultivating a close relationship to one teacher, who has a close relation to his teacher, etc. I believe only a very limited amount of people have this type of relationship with Hatsumi Sensei, and I am pretty sure most of these people (for instance the shihan) did not receive a 15th dan, they received menkyo. I do not know what Soke says since I have never met him nor do I speak Japanese, so I take the things I believe about what he says from carefully selected sources who I believe to have the above mentioned relationship with Hatsumi Sensei. And well, 15th dan, that was just a manner of speech, I hope kind sir I have not offended you or your lofty rank... Regards, Tom.
Nope but this is not how the Bujinkan works as I understand it. This is a western concept. The way I understand it is it Soke shows something or says something but it is upto the individual to understand the message, as Soke says "understand, good, go play" there is a lot in these few words. Sometimes it is not what he shows or says but in what he doesn't show or say, what we are learning I believe cant be written down, and is very hard to even put into words, it is a kind of realisation which can only be learnt through proper observation and internalisation, this cant come from a "coach" that so many are looking for, hence the number of false idols in the Bujinkan. As per above it is not instruction I am looking for, more a kind of learn by example, this is the way nature works and is most affective if leaning an abstract concept. Additional of course I have a close personal relationship with a senior shihan because they have a close relationship with Soke, this also aids understanding but it is our bodies that have to learn the way, not our minds, this is only done through constructive practice and lots of it.
