I've only really been shown it in the context of some shoulder locks and head/neck wrenches but I don't see why it couldn't apply to smaller joints too.
a lock/break can be done without the accompanying hold that allows for a submission to be applied slowly and the opponent given a chance to tap. this is the difference. as an example, the classic juji-gatami armbar from judo is a submission, and can be used to dislocate the elbow or break the arm. the same dislocation/break can be accomplished if the legs were not over the opponent holding him down, but the elbow was still brought across a leg and a force applied quickly to the arm. the latter can't be used as a submission, though, because if the arm is brought to the point of the injury and held, the opponent can easily move his body to relieve the pressure. the break still works, however, if the arm is accelerated faster than the body can move to compensate. this is referred to in many arts as 'wrenching' a joint. tim
Oh ok, I see what you meant. I guess my big problem with those types of techniques is, theres basically no way to train them with resistance. and,at least for me, unless I train something with resistance I know i probably won't be able to pull it off in a real fight.
depends on what you mean by 'with resistance.' if you can get into the proper position, against a resisting opponent, that's training with resistence, isn't it? that's what happens with submissions, except that your opponent taps. when you're a beginner, you go slowly, and the tap tells you when it's to the point of stopping before damage is done. when you get a sense of where that point is, you don't need the opponent to tap to recognize that threshold. if you can take the joint to the point of pain and let go, why is that less valid training than taking it to the point of pain and holding it there? tim
Meant to reply sooner but i've been super busy with studying for my chinese final ahh! Well I see what you saying but I still think that you can't realistically train these moves safely. as you siad "the break still works, however, if the arm is accelerated faster than the body can move to compensate. this is referred to in many arts as 'wrenching' a joint." Now, having to put the moves on with a great amount of speed really makes for a dangerous and hard to train technique, with my experience with small joint manipulation and the other locks I think your talking about, you do really have to use speed and strength in order to get them to work which makes it very hard/near impossible to stop at the point of the break. I've even seen arm bars get wrenched when a person tries to pull apart someones grip and thats from a relatively secure position. I just don't think its possible to safely train and still go 100% with small joint locks, arm bars from standing etc. I also still think they are low percentage because (a wristlock for example) you have to get it to the point of being able to apply major pressure/breaking point in order to have success and getting it there is just an extremely hard thing to do, especially while training safe.
i agree. but i feel that the inability to take it to the break point safely while training with significant resistance doesn't make the technique less viable. i like both the method you prefer and that one i've been describing. i train both. tim
I preffer the 'wrench' method against limbs (arms and head to be precise) whilst standing. It may be because I train BJJ/Judo/Grappling with a good calibre of training partners, but I rarely (read 'rarely') feel the position to 'wrench' whilst on the ground with only my 'weak lil' arms' to do the work without isolating the limb. Percusive locks on the other hand, I see the opportunity to do everywhere. Do they have a better name, or should we just stick with 'percusive'?
Dumog the way I've seen it. is of course grappling however there are various techniques that you use just your legs to collapse the opponents leg while striking with the stick, so no hands, then as the opponent collapses you fall on them and go for break or submission, it looks a little like 'Bigtime Wrestling' without rules but with a lot of finesse !!
Nice clips http://youtube.com/watch?v=kE-Rw_Su9uo http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qmp2_WdFoPE http://youtube.com/watch?v=BCQ4KnLxluc
So when applied in stick or knife fighting it is what can put your opponent in an off balanced situation, such as stepping on their foot, then collapsing their lower leg with pressure from your leg to their knee joint and ankle simultaneously causing the leg to collapse with not a lot of pushing or pulling, now this manuever can break the leg or at least cause your opponent to limp. This going on while you hold a stick or knife or whatever one might have in their hand. There are so many phases and variations of 'dumog' but from what I have experienced, very effective in combat. Cheers !
instructor in youtube vid link hi, I would appreciate information on the instructor that Viking linked to on youtube. I was really impressed with the stuff he was doing. Planning on going to the Phillipines in February and if I could hook up and train with that guy, it would make my year. Regards, Gordon
That would be Nonoy Garrucho. For information, you check his website: http://www.freewebs.com/sundangan/foundersprofile.htm
