ok well i searched and it turns out that yoda closed the last dumog thread.. so i got some questions -is it a no-rules raw grappling art? (eye gouging, fishhooking etc) -is there over laps from other asian grappling arts? -what FMA is it most used in, from what i hear its not an art on its own.. -does it utilize weapons while grappling, if so thats sooo sweet! and for those who havent heard its a filipino grappling art.. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dumog
I'm familiar with the term... but I've never seen any of it. It'll be interesting to see what gets posted in this thread. BJJ and MMA are HUGELY popular in the Philipines... I wonder how much Dumog actually is taught these days? This clip in particular is interesting. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-6CfNjflxY"]Filipino Dumog Techniques - YouTube[/ame]
Now I would call that last clip locks and takedowns.....Dumog just means to grapple and grapple in FMA is considered to be once you are both on the floor. (This is according to my instructors, others may vary opinion) Like all FMA taught in it's true form, which is not as a sport, there are no rules. So of course you fish-hook and eye gauge. A good one is striking/pulling under the nose area because the head has to follow. Yes weapons are used to manipulate, lock and choke opponents. A popular one among students is the fang choke, which is a scarfhold, pushing the butt of the stick into the neck/throat (works on any area) while holding the stick with one hand close to the entry point and levering the stick with the other hand further up the stick. Very dangerous if applied too quick or too hard. Impossible to get out of once applied. Very painful. Most FMA'ers will tell you the stick is an extension to their hands/arms, so anything applied with a stick can be done empty handed and anything applied empty handed can be done with a stick....small adaptions sometimes have to be made, but this usually just boils down to range, the techniques and principles are the same. Imagine alot of the locks you see in the UFC and such, but now imagine them applied with a stick digging (levered) into the byceps/tryceps and any other muscular area. It adds some additional pain into the mix. Obviously it is used in other ways too but this is probably the easiest way to picture it at first. In the Philippines, you have to remember that they also have other martial arts, and like every-where else in the world, if an Instructor is good at another art it will bleed through to their FMA. They have had Aikido and Judo in the PI for as long as we have, so it would be hard to tell where influences begin and end. Perhaps some of the well researched members of MAP can answer more about the history and origins. Love Lucy :love:
This is an interesting clip on 'Buno' another grappling art from philippines http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-899363517473440858&q=harimaw+buno Regards
As I understand DUMOG As Lucy said it pertains to empty hand Ground grappling / wrestling However in stand-up or with weapons it pertains to your ability to control the opponent in such a way that they dont actually have good control of their own body (mechanically or strategically). This is an art own its own it is the essence of nearly all.... FMA , thats right break the opponents balance. Like most eskrima components it can be separated out and isolated for training - however in real time it all gets lumped back into SKIRMISH. Think light WristLock (or any Cunsee - a sub-art of DUMOG) to get body mvmt. Think Trip or Parry, Brush, Grab, Pull.
depends on the style- some have similar movements to those arts, some don't. your profile says you're in santa cruz- you might want to look up andrew ma, who is in the bay area. he teaches buno. tim
there's also boltong, grappling of the mountain province. dont know much about it though. http://www.fullcombat.com/Articles/Martial Art Styles/dumog.html
Here's a link to a forum that discussed this same topic: http://www.fmaforum.org/index.php?showtopic=823&hl=dumog Generally speaking, it's more of a supplementary art to Arnis (especially in my school) rather than an art on its' own.
Hi, I like all the wrestling arts out there, but I learn them so I can counter them as fast as possible to be able to stay erect and not go where they want me. Some times it is imposible, especially if your feet are not able to do the job (move and change position) go back and recover and use your other abilities as striking or kicking. Chuck Liddell is a perfect example of a person who was a wrestler and a good one but now is using the superior technique of strike's to stop the opponent. In all of Randy Coutere's (sp) match's and wins only two have been on the ground with a submit. The two I have used as samples are leading in the MMA of today and they are good at all the forms of defense, striking, kicking or grappling (all the ground skilled arts). But a leading man in his time and still is, Gene Le Bell is foremost a ground man or a submit person but he does it standing and on the ground. Still very good at striking. Common sense will tell you the ground is not where you want to be (end up) if you are attacked...IMHO. Gary
good point, but I just feel more comfortable on the ground, like Royce Gracie once said "everyone can strike, but not everyone can grapple".. but to the point i want to learn all froms of grappling so i can be comfortable in all postions, thats why i want to incorperate the unforgiving FMA's... oh ya and i want to become T3h D3@dLy Gr4ppl3r!!111111
Sorry but that's a load of pap. If everyone could strike the streets would be teaming with champion strikers and KO artists.
"but I just feel more comfortable on the ground" I don't know about where you live, but in the UK the ground is not a very comfortable place...I think this goes for PI as well
I completely agree, we had some guys in Yorkshire that seemed to think they were born kicking and punching, in fact that is exactly what they said, so felt they did not need to practice anything other than grappling....give them their due they were very good on the mats grappling and could beat virtually anyone that came to try them out, but they went in the ring against our recommendation and had their **** politely handed to them on a plate....I don't think they ever got past a first round and one got knocked out in under 10 seconds at one of his fights because he fell for a fakey kick. So they did not even get to the grappling stage. I thought it was hillarious....."I was born kicking and punching, me!" Hahaha. Yeah, but you still need to learn how to read people and counter effectively with precision and control, to be better than your opponent. It is an Art after all..... You would not tell a Thai boxer he is wasting his time training and that you are just as good as him without training would you? I believe in being a good all rounder for every possibility, many people become stronger in certain areas purely because they concentrate on it more, perhaps because they enjoy it more or feel more comfortable there, but if you train all areas equally there is no reason why a person cannot be very good at all areas, from weapons, to empty hands stand up, to throws and locks, to grappling and countering. I don't think there is any reason to roll around for 10 minutes on the floor unless you are practicing for the MMA arena(due to the fact you are both practicing to counter eachother continuously as this is what to expect in the ring), in reality on the street you should be able to counter and control quickly and effectively in as little time as possible. Not to say it isn't fun though and does provide some sensitivity training. The grappling I have learnt through FMA is deffinately vindictive and effective and FMA'ers understand locks better than alot of the other MA's out there, so it is not so hard for an FMA'er to hit the ground, people just assume that because FMA is prodominantly weapons based, that is all we do. They do not realise that the transitions are virtually seamless from one area/zone to another. I have also gone to expert grapplers to learn little tricks, but that is because they do it all the time and are going to know a little bit more, but it is really for the ring, as on the street and as an FMA rule, you would have to consider the possibility of a weapon/knife or extra people coming into the equation and not necessarily from the start of a confrontation, it may come in later, so there are some principals that need to be followed as best as possible and the ground is purely a last resort which you do not choose voluntarily. Love Lucy :love:
hey i didnt say everyone could strike well ... just it not hard to learn to throw a punch unlike preforming a crucifix neck crank... sorry if i hurt any of you striking dominant fighers' feelings.. now back on to topic, does dumog use the same positions as bjj or other submission fighting arts, like gaurd, mount, etc?
Probably one of the reason I am not real keen on grappling is the various positions that are so sexually graphic. It is a game from Greece and the stories I have heard about the old Greek culture. Has anyone else thought about that at all ? Or maybe it is just I and my old age??? Seems like it is just an extension of foreplay and not fighting. But the holds are a bitch.
Yes, Dumog does have the same positions as other grappling arts like BJJ. The main difference that I have found is that Dumog is based on reality combat...not sport. No offense to anyone who trains in bjj or other arts. I am a blue belt in BJJ and have trained in Judo, Sambo and Catch and I love to grapple. What I mean by dumog is based on reality is simply this...in the Philippines when they get in a fight it is usually for their lives. They know that in a real fight you do not have time to set around and play the chess game with someone in your guard or topmount or any other position. The main goal in dumog should be the main goal in any art/style/system...and that is to end the fight as quickly as possible. They do alot of the same locks that you see in bjj but with a little different move. They are more geared towards breaking bones than making you tap. They still do neck cranks/breaks and "keylock" type locks. I will go back through my notes and try and post a few examples. P.S. everyone can throw a punch but not everyone can throw it with accuracy and proper timing or rythm.
That is a pretty good sum up of Dumog from Tim. I have some video footage that I will try to dig out this week. Love Lucy :love:
