duels between portuguese and samurai

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by Polar Bear, Dec 10, 2007.

  1. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Regarding the respective swordwork there is often a mistaken view that the japanese swordwork is agile and flexible gainst that of the clumsy knight in his armour.
    One need only research western swordwork to see that it is as subtle and adaptable as the eastern which would include jujutsu like throws pins and grapples.

    I worked for a time for the Glasgow Art Galleries and help catagories numerous suits of Japanese armour. I am only five feet nine and 10.5 srone yet the armour was too small for me includong the kote some of which looked like they would fit a child.

    So size and bulk would also be a factor in any any combat.Let no one be fooled , being taller,heavier and stronger than your opponent is an advantage.


    regards koyo
     
  2. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Also it was the Japanese who invented to concept of volley fire which transformed european warefare in the napoleonic era.

    The Bear.
     
  3. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    See now that's interesting. AFAIK, there are no manuals in the German tradition that specifically say to leave space, but illustrate it. Other manuals show the sword gripped quite closely to the cross. How much space is generally left between the dominant hand and the tsuba?

    Later on, longswords had side-rings added to the crossguard, which function similarly to a tsuba, but allow the weilder to rest his thumb along the blade, which is very important when performing descending or horizontal cuts with the back edge. The only drawback is that you can thrust through them. It also makes winding much safer as sometimes your opponenent's blade can skip down to one's hands when you set aside a strike with a thrust.

    Best regards,

    -Mark
     
  4. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    The japanese sword cuts on the pull or the push. The left hand projects the power from the hips and the right hand which is nearest the tsuba directs the cut to the target. Should the right hand be too close to the tsuba this inhibits the cut.There is also a light "wringing" of the hands on contact this too would be inhibited by a grip too close.

    And most definately YES training with beginners using the jo cures you quickly of holding too close to the tsuba.


    regards koyo

    Proper placement of hands.
     

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  5. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    That's one of the frustrating things about many manuals is that they largely neglect the footwork, already assuming you know how to do it. They usually say something like "step around and out to the side". Joachim Meyer does give more detail in footwork, thankfully, and the Marozzo's manual give more specific instructions as well, IIRC, even if it is Italian. ;)

     
  6. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    If you watch the katori shinto ryu closley you shall see the attacker suddenly pull his right hand off the sword and draw it to his chest. This is the counter to the under the forearm cut.Often during the kata this is done so fast that you can easily miss it.

    As for footwork, in the katori shinto ryu books there are cryptic scrawls and what looks like bird footprints in snow these tell those who know what footwork to use. Also almost all of the blocks and parries they show are actually attacks needing only a change in timing.

    AS for sabaki (movement) we are told enter triangularly (attack along the line of the sword) cut circularly (since the sword must push or pull) and execute squarely (maintain a strong posture throughout) These principles stand true for the empty hand techniques as well.


    regards koyo
     
  7. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    Bill,

    That's the proper placement of hands for Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto-ryu.

    It really all depends on which ryuha you are training in. Almost every ryuha has a different nigirigata (gripping method) for the sword. Some have the hands together, away from the tsuka-gashira and some have the little finger curled around the tsuka-gashira to enable a stronger thrusting action.

    It's case by case again.
     
  8. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Thanks kogusoku I thought so. Sekiya shihan showed me the little finger curled around the tsuka gashira and that is the way I prefare to use the sword.AS you say it makes for a stronger thrust.Also stops me holding too tight :)

    regards koyo
     
  9. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    You should see how Niten Ichi grip the tachi - Very different to how other schools of Japanese swordsmanship grip the weapon.
     
  10. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.


    Got a picture?

    If you do come to Glasgow make it during sacred fire's visit then we can all have a piece of him :) If the bear isn't hungry that is :)

    regards koyo
     
  11. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    Colin Hyakutake wrote this piece, describing the differences between modern kendo and HNIR.

    Article on Hyoho.com
     
  12. max Chouinard

    max Chouinard Valued Member

    I followed a seminar with Yukihiro Sugino sensei from TSKSR, and their hold was different from what we do. Didn't had any tsuba though so I can't speak about the space between it.

    On another note, where does this little finger thing comes from? It seems to be used by some schools of aikiken, and some people at this seminar were using it (and had been using it for a long time) before being corrected by Sugino sensei. Heard it came from the YSR, would it be right?
     
  13. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    The little finger being coiled behind the tsuka-gashira is found in TSKSR.

    It is definately not found in Yagyu Shinkage-ryu. At least not in the main lines.
     
  14. max Chouinard

    max Chouinard Valued Member

    Checked in my notes and youre right.... and now I'm confused about this seminar :confused: .
     

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