Drunkeness and Pain Compliance

Discussion in 'Women's Self Defence' started by Melanie, Oct 11, 2005.

  1. Melanie

    Melanie Bend the rules somewhat.. Supporter

    He's Drunk:
    Does Your Self-Defense System Rely Too Much on Pain Compliance?

    According to the Department of Justice, about 64% of criminals arrested are under the influence of alcohol or drugs during the commission of their crime.

    However, I have found in my experience that it seems that about three of every four people you end up fighting are high on something. If they weren’t, I seriously doubt that the situation would degenerate into a fight…

    The ugly truth of most sexual assaults is that there is alcohol involved – usually on both sides of the equation.

    So, you should give some thought to how you would handle an attacker who was drunk or high on something. You should also give some thought as to how you are going to defend yourself if you are drunk.

    Okay, because the guy is high many of your techniques designed to hurt him probably won't work because the drugs in his system are inhibiting the pain signals from reaching his brain. The "stun and run", "kick him in the groin" or "poke him in the eyes" techniques might not work as well as they did in the gym.

    Now what do you do?

    This is an important point here – the method that you should learn should not rely on him feeling or reacting to pain. Look for a method that controls his center line while physically moving him off of you or effecting a mechanical knockout or mechanical damage to his joints.

    You also want to be learning concepts and principals that use gross body movements. You want something that is simple and does not require fine motor skills. Those will probably be shot because of stress and especially if you have been drinking yourself.

    Taken from: http://www.rapeescape.com/drunk.htm
     
  2. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Great post Melaine! This is a wonderful and important point!

    One thing that that we all can remember is that often the only difference between a lock and a break is speed and projection. So many locks can quickly be turned into breaks. However, all breaks are clearly not equal when it comes to limiting mobility.

    Thanks again for posting this!

    - Matt
     
  3. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    The article does raise a very good poijnt and put's another nail in the coffin of pressure point striking in a fight, on the other hand it doesn't really tell me anything new.

    5/10
     
  4. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    Hi

    Still bruised from last week - nearly a week of battering by Bruce Miller - I can repeat his mantra...

    Level one Pressure Points (PP's) rely on pain and won't work on people on drugs, drunk or simply people who can charge through the pain.

    Level two PP's affect muscles and again won't work on lots of people.

    Level three PP's - which rely on interrupting or utilizing basic processes (like the CNS, breathing, etc.) work on virtually everybody.

    Bruce knows what he's talking about because in his job in a Psych Hospital he deals virtually on a daily basis with violent, drugged, drunk and UNCOPERATIVE attackers.

    But that said - there is NO technique, no method, no art that comes with a 100% guarantee - if there were we would all be studying it.

    and...
    Next week I'll be training with Rick Clark - most of Rick's stuff (that I've seen) is level one and two - not that he uses that paradigm - but he's good at it and is a good instructor - so I'll be learning stuff that may give me a small technical improvement in what I do...

    You know what - that's great - If I can do something at 68% efficiency instead of 67% due to an extra seminar then I think it's good training.

    It's worth remembering that most 'street fighters', 'muggers', 'rapists', whatever - don't have great physical skills - what they have primarily is a violent attitude and this is what tends to let them beat people who are 'emotionally nicer' into submission.

    All the best.

    Robert.
     
  5. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    Another thing to remember is reasonableness.

    What the heck do I mean by that?

    Simple. Pain compliance relies on someone being reasonable enough to say "That hurts. The reasonable thing to do would be to stop doing whatever is making it hurt." The problem with this is that someone who has decided to commit a violent felony against you isn't very reasonable, almost by definition.

    The other problem is "What next?" You can't keep applying pressure point techniques or maintain an armlock forever. Sooner or later you have to break the interaction. If you're going for "stun and run" or incapacitation it's fairly simple. You do what you're going to do and then run like hell as soon as you think it's safe to leave.

    If you're using pain compliance it can be a little more difficult. A lot of people will comply when they are in pain. The moment you let up they go from submissive to furious and frustrated. Best perhaps not to set your hopes on a violent criminal being reasonable after he's been frustrated, hurt and ebarrassed.
     
  6. Jesh

    Jesh Dutch Side Of The Force

    Very good article, and true... my sensei works as a security officer at NATO and also as a bouncer. He has repeatedly told me stories from his own experience of how people that have consumed alcohol or drugs are harder to control using certain kinds of techniques. Not only do they not react to pain-stimulus, they also tend to totally freak out and even if you have broken an arm, wrist etc. there are individuals who keep coming after you.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2005
  7. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Great posts. I'm impressed.

    I have not much to add, except that people in a fight don't react to pain as much usually anyway. They don't have to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol to be this way, it is just part of the fight or flight mental and chemical processes.
     
  8. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    robertmap: when you talk about level three pressure points are you reffering to things like choke holds and punches to the jaw?
     
  9. Shrfu_Eric

    Shrfu_Eric New Member

    with pressure point striking ... most won't work correctly and practically on intoxicated individuals but major motor pressure point do work (for the most part). Your not relying on pain compliance but are creating motor disfunction... giving you that window of opportunity to escape.

    Other areas that are good to strike in a volitile situations such as a rape crisis are for instance the throat. True the groin shot will probably not affect him right away. If you can reach the groin grab and tear.

    In situations like rape you do whatever possible and make alot of noise (if possible) to flee from the attack. Self preservation rather than self defence. If you can apply a joint lock ... break it. Maximum damage ASAP.

    The real only way to prepare (if there is a way) is to practice what you are taught and beat it to death.

    Good luck ... just some thoughts.

    Be well

    Eric
     
  10. Shrfu_Eric

    Shrfu_Eric New Member

    Great Post Mel !!!!
     
  11. inthespirit

    inthespirit ignant

    In my opinion fighting people on drugs should be split in to two categories.

    Firstly those who are on downers, i.e. alcohols, weed, heroin, barbiturates, etc. This group in my experience is quite easy to fight, mainly because their balance, speed and agility are compromised, the more "high" they are the worse they can move. Also, these drugs depress the brain, so if you hit someone in the jaw, or any knock out area, they are more likely to get knocked out, even more so than a sober person.

    Secondly, there are those who are on uppers, i.e. amphetamines, cocaine, etc. This group is much more difficult to subdue. One important thing to remember is that these drugs, particularly amphetamines, are performance enhancers, they speed up bodily process and can potentially increase a persons ability for speed, strength and endurance. On top of all these issues there is also another problem. This group of drugs excites the brain, and makes it difficult to shut down. I've personally seen a cooked up guy take 8 direct hits to the face from a decent striker, four of which were on the jaw, and these strikes had hardly any effect, the guy did eventually back off, but that was due to his face being cut up from the punches.

    Considering, the above factors, and the difficulty in telling what state of mind the attacker is in (easier if they are drunk), my strategy in a fight is hit as many times in the head/throat as you can until the person is down or out.
     
  12. Shrfu_Eric

    Shrfu_Eric New Member

    I use to do plain clothed security. Most situations I've encountered have been with intoxicated people both alcohol and drugs. I've been able to use restraints and locks mostly arm and wrist. With the occasional throw and sweep. I usually used stern words and cohersing to have people respond but ... not always so easy.
     

Share This Page