don't point that thing at me

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by wing chun, Nov 8, 2004.

  1. TwIsT

    TwIsT Son Of Odin!

    It really depends on the type of the gun and then to the skill of the gunsmen wielding it. Alot of gun murders that happen today are by people who have only a basic understanding of how a gun works. If you have knowledge of guns and such,you can identify a weapon,and,this is hard and not a recomendation,or even that practical,but if you can run and duck into cover long enough for their magazine to empty WITHOUT getting shot in a crippling way,it is alot easier and safer to take 'em down and disarm them. Still dangeresque tho.
     
  2. wing chun

    wing chun Banned Banned

    disarming may be easy but stupid. if a guy jabs a gun in your ribs kick him in the delicates. do not try a complicated disarming techique. a cool sexy kung fu techique matters squat when your dead :Angel:
     
  3. Judderman

    Judderman 'Ello darlin'

    If disarming techniques are so easy, would anyone like to "bite the bullet" :)D) and post a technique for doing so?

    I only know 2 against 2 types of firearm, neither of which I would risk my life on.
     
  4. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    I would love to see this tried. Tell you what, I've got a cap gun, or a water pistol, I've even got some BBs around. How about I'll point the gun at your chest, you try and disarm, and I try and shoot you with it?

    And watch your stomach disappear as his hand clenches shut instinctively from the pain, emptying the magazine into your suddenly external organs.
     
  5. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Jud,

    Here's the basic model as always:

    1. Get off the line of the weapon
    2. Check it and move past the weapon
    3. Punish the core

    So let's play a couple close quarter scenarios. Cases where the gun is within range.

    First step put your hands up gun level. The hands come up in ye old "non violent posture". Keep your palms open and facing the attacker, gentle up and down motion, while stating everthing is going to be ok.

    Of so if the gun is center level, pointed at your core, stike the gun hand/arm to one direction (lets say to the left). At the same time, perhaps more importantly, break to the right on an apporximately 45 degree angle. But doing these at the same time your accomplishing the first two steps, you are simulatinously moving off line and past the weapon. At this point the gun should be checked against your body. Also you should maintain a hold on the gun arm. The goal is simply to prevent it from coming back into play. The function for this is more of a reenforcement. Whats far more important is beating the heck of the person's head.

    In the head level scenario we need to drop low and then push the gun up. Again it's the two way action. Once the gun is cleared you surge into the attackers body to pass beyond the gun again and then punish.

    - Matt
     
  6. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    And as Lil'BunnyRabbit suggested kicking someone in the groin leaves you directly in the path of the weapon. And this is bad.

    - Matt
     
  7. megk

    megk New Member

    Matt,

    I understand what you are saying as far as technique and thankyou for your posts here, they are really informative. I have a questions though...How do you check the gun against your body in the scenario you mentioned? I see striking the gun to the left and moving right, but how do you contain the gun arm? How do you hold the gun arm as well as throttle the attacker?

    What about say a an armlock or something along those lines? Can that actually work?
     
  8. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Personally I would never try to lock a gun. At least not without stiking the person first. Otherwise you're bound to end up in a wrestling match and the longer your in that scenario the more chance you have of getting shot.

    As far as the body check, I see it going a couple ways. The first one, without arm assist, is that you cut right on a really tight angle (maybe only 15 degrees off center). Basically after getting the gun off center you're taking center away and simply by moving inside the gun range is becomes difficult for the gun arm to reenter without the attacker backing up or otherwise making space.

    The downside though is that you're betting a lot on body position. A prefered method would be to over hook the gun arm as you're moving in, syncing it close to your body. not trapping it with your hand, but rather with your arm.

    The goal here is control, not disarming.

    - Matt
     
  9. megk

    megk New Member

    Thanx Matt!

    If I understand, you would block the gun left and move in and to the right so you are close to the attacker? The arm lock I get.
     
  10. CobraMaximus

    CobraMaximus Banned Banned

    On request from someone heres the deal.

    If they are pointing the gun at your chest you try to get out of the firing line ASAP, grab the slide and the assailants wrist then with an explosive movement whip the gun round so it is pointing at them. Then lurch it backwards, this will tear the trigger finger off and they will probably loose any aspirations of killing you that they ever had.

    When a gun is at your back its hard. If its to one side and ONLY in that case try to disarm them. Spin on heel and toe extra fast, turning your body sideways so the gun no longer points at you. You can then grab the gun, or bring your leg up for a roundhouse. Otherwise you can use a similar technique to above.

    In general the chance of you evre being held up with a gun is slim but when it happens keep your wits. If you get shot make sure your not hit in the right hand side abdominal or anywhere above the heart minus the arms. If you get shot in the lier youll die in 5 minutes. If you get hit in the stomach you can take 11 more shots therebefore you die. If you are hit in the lung, leg, arm or shoulder you can easily treat the wound and more often than not survive.
     
  11. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    To go a bit further, I would block/strike the gun (I doubt there would be much subtlty involved) left with my right palm. As I was doing that I'd move in along the outside of the gun arm at a tight angle, making sure that I clear all of my body but still mantitain some form of tactile contact.

    I'd probably be simultaniously striking with my left hand if possible. Otherwise, my left arm would be over the top on the gun arm, pulling it in close to my body, locking down with the bicept area, while I started to strike with my right hand. I probably would not use kicks as I'd be in close and want to maintain the most stable base possible.

    Optimally, I'd like to be doing all of this to the cold side/out side of my attacker, that would be far more important to me than left and right. For a variety of reasons.

    - Matt
     
  12. megk

    megk New Member

    Thanx, I can see exactly how that would work. i might have to try that on my Master at class tonight. If anything it's another one step to use :D
     
  13. Judderman

    Judderman 'Ello darlin'

    Matt, thanks for the insight, it sounds very similar to the one I was shown. How does this compare from a handgun to a rifle or shotgun?
    Is the technique much the same if the weapon is pointed at your back?

    Cobramaximus, I'm no gun expert but even I can recall the fact that holding just about any moving part of a firearm will not stop it from discharging. Although I do recall a technique that involved twisting the gun towards the assailent and breaking the trigger finger, the method you have described puts you directly in line of the weapon. The moment you grab the weapon it is likely that it will discharge.

    It is vital that you get out of the line of fire as Matt has described. You will probably still get shot, but taking on an armed assailent should be an absolute last resort.
     
  14. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    No, he said its easy to disarm people with a gun, and I agree, its very easy to disarm people when you're holding a gun.

    Nope, grabbing the slide will instead tear most of the skin off your palm as well as getting you shot.
     
  15. wing chun

    wing chun Banned Banned

    ok then grab his hand piont it away from you then kick him in the balls
     
  16. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    The problem is shifting the hand shifts the body moving your target. Additionally if you get him in the privates, he's going to collapse inward pulling the gun back towards your center. And if you fail you're in a wrestling match with a weapon and chances are you will be shot. Get of the line, check and control the weapon, attack the core. It's that simple. Anything more complex is asking for problems.

    - Matt
     
  17. Sgt_Major

    Sgt_Major Ex Global Mod Supporter

    running first off is a bad idea....this leads to you getting shot in the back.......give them what they want, unless they want your life.......most attackers want one of two things....money, or you dead. Money can be regained...life cannot. if they want your life, then i agree with Matt, consider yourself dead, then anything else is a bonus.....if i managed to get possession of the gun, i do believe that my brain would not be connected to my body temporarily, and i would re-connect to find a dead man at my feet.....and an empty gun in my hand. but better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
     
  18. bcullen

    bcullen They are all perfect.

    Mostly agree,

    First point: Gut level: what is his intent (robbery, revenge...) do you think he'll let you live?
    If he's just in it for the money, just let it go. It's not worth the risk.
    If you know you're going to be killed you have nothing to loose; this mindset can be an advantage. There's nothing worse to square off with then a person with nothing to loose.

    Second point how is your assailant holding the weapon.
    Single hand (left or right), both centered. Does he assume the stances you see police using on the nightly news (if so, he may be trained and your in serious trouble).

    Third point: What kind of weapon is leveled at you. (This can make a big difference)

    If you're in an open area just running is not the best idea, if you can quickly get cover, concealment or both this is your best bet.

    You have to reach him before he can move his finger a fraction of an inch: The odds are not in your favor. Don't raise your hands, it puts them in easy view killing any chance of surprise. Wait for an oppertune momment, some minor lapse of his attention and follow the advice that Matt gave in previous posts.

    If the gunman is holding the weapon single handed his shots will tend to pull in the direction of the hand. If they hold it in the right, go left when defelcting or making a run for it. Best advice: Be aware and don't get in the situation to begin with.

    NOTE: This advice applies to firearms: The hands up advice is just the opposite if your facing a knife or club. Get your hands up and ready to defend(turn wrists in for bladed weapons).
     
  19. marcusknight

    marcusknight Valued Member

    not sure i would try this someone test it for me :D
    apparently if you are 30 feet or more a way then even an experienced marksman will find it hard to hit a moveign target at that distance so run in a diagonal line. its probably better just to do what they say though.
    but if some one points a gun at you i suggest you either run or you could stick the gun in ur mouth and try to laugh :eek: you neevr know it may scare them into running away, if not u will die ;) some one try these methods out for me please :Angel:and i hold no responsibilty if you die, you try these methods at your own risk, any volunters?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2004

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