Dojo Storming

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by Agutrot-, Apr 15, 2007.

  1. Agutrot-

    Agutrot- Jack of all Trades

    It was brought up in a previous thread, but I wanted to know everyone's opinion about BJJ guys going to TKD, kung fu, etc dojos to challenge the people who train there. Do you find it disrespectful? Would you do it yourself? If you don't train in BJJ how would you feel about it?

    Personally, I think it'd be fun and would love to try it. There are way too many McDojos around my area and I think by storming I could restore some integrity. Sigh, it'll never happen though.
  2. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    I think doing it "unannounced and unplanned" is a bit rude and possibly even dangerous. I don't see why you couldn't arrange with local schools to do some sort of "throwdown" or even better, a seminar with time to roll afterwards.

    Doing a "surpise" storming is a good way to get hurt, especially working with people whom you don't know. You have no idea what their control is, what their limitations are, and who the nut cases are!

    Of course, it would depend on the rules too... if you are going into a TKD school, does that mean you fight by their rules? Or were you just assuming that everyone will fight only by yours?
  3. Agutrot-

    Agutrot- Jack of all Trades

    I think it would be pretty easy to decide on a ruleset acceptable to both parties. If the rules allow everything taught in TKD (for example) it wouldn't be a hindrance to those who practice it anyway.
  4. tekkengod

    tekkengod the MAP MP

    randomly, yea, rude and stupid. planned, why not, either put up or shut up.
  5. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    I think the home school would set the rules - afterall the "invaders" are challenging so the hosts get to set the rules.

    In all seriousness, if a crew from the local BJJ crew showed up on our doorstep and wanted to challenge us, it would probably get ugly. If they showed up and wanted to train in one of our classes, no real problem. If they arranged beforehand to do a few classes with us or even to send some guys in to do a clinic and then have a bit of open rolling (under pre-arranged rules), that'd be nice.

    Not too long ago we invited in one of the local NHB instructors. He taught a nice class and then kept the last half hour for some grappling rolling (grappling rules, no strikes) and coached our students and then rolled with a bunch of us (myself included). That way we all shared and learned without having to do some sort of ego-building "storming" or anything. That's what I'd recommend.
  6. Agutrot-

    Agutrot- Jack of all Trades

    That sounds like a lot of fun Tom. Would you, as an instructor, spar kickboxing at your gym with someone from a different art? I think it'd be really fun to spar with someone of a pure TMA against my thai boxing. I've always been really attracted to art vs. art combat because it's so rare.

    edit: Your school seems a lot better then the crap around my house so I don't think they'd be as open minded as you anyway.
  7. 1bad65

    1bad65 Valued Member

    I think its ok to do it if someone has either A: said they have like the best self defense system B) wildly inflated credentials, and especially lying about BJJ rank or experience

    There is a guy here I would love to do it to, but my instructor is against it and would probably throw me out of the Academy for doing it.
  8. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    Mutual exchange of training methods - that's got to be an excellent idea.

    Someone turning up wanting to challenge us? I don't think I could entertain that. One things for certain, any sparring that they might want to do wouldn't be done according to their rule system. If, for example, a BJJ guy wanted to come along and spar under their rules, then I'd have to add a rule or two of my own.

    But realistically, no-one's ever been cheesy enough to do such a thing in Leeds that I've ever heard of.

  9. Ghost Frog

    Ghost Frog New Member

    I don't see the point in dojo storming. Its not as if everyone in the world is going to take up BJJ as it stands at the moment. Lets face it, even people who love training find it hard going most of the time. We need to try and make BJJ classes more stuctured and open first.

    Better to spread the word through seminars tailored towards clubs new to BJJ, then roll at the end so that people start to see what really works. There are plenty of non-BJJ clubs out there who are interested enough to learn a few basics, and this will help to raise awareness of grappling, feeding more people into clubs.

    Also, too many people who want to dojo storm are proving nothing, since they are far stronger, more athletic and more skilled than the people they challenge. A fairer match would be to take the weakest person in each dojo and see how they get on.

    All in all, I just don't think that martial arts are important enough to try to stop people training in the only thing that might be standing between them and the massive heart attack that stops them seeing their kids grow up, even if the martial art in question is tibetan candle pushing.
  10. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    Well said!

    You also said "Lets face it, even people who love training find it hard going most of the time". Could you elaborate?

  11. Agutrot-

    Agutrot- Jack of all Trades

    The purpose isn't to get everyone to take BJJ. The purpose is to force instructors to have some integrity and to educate people who are there for self defense as to which system is truely superior. If you don't watch MMA you probably think that the most effective form of fighting is what you see in the movies(at least I did), and probably have never heard of BJJ. Dojo storming would show students of a particular art how theirs would stack up with another in a realistic situation.
  12. Visage

    Visage Banned Banned






    Believe it or not, BJJ is NOT the Korean meatballs!!! You might find that hard to believe, but actually, there are a lot of good martial art styles out there MORE suitable for "realistic situations" than BJJ.

    Get a life.
  13. Ghost Frog

    Ghost Frog New Member

    All I mean by that is that BJJ is a very unforgiving art to train in. It takes a long time to get any good at it, its extremely physically demanding and progress is measured solely by your ability in sparring.

    You have to get used to and learn to thrive in really uncomfortable positions where people are crushing your chest or have their knee in your solar plexus. You have to learn to tap 25 times in 10 minutes for the first few months you train.

    If you are big, then you have to face up to the possibility that someone far smaller and weaker may be able to beat you. And if you are small, you have to realise that no matter how technically good you get, it will always be very hard work to beat someone bigger and stronger than you.

    Its still great fun, though. :)
  14. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    this thread is heating up... :D
  15. Ghost Frog

    Ghost Frog New Member

    I see where you're coming from, but I think its difficult to prove anything by dojo storming. If someone is lying to their students/ in denial that badly, they will always reason it away to themselves and their students - "he was bigger than me", "we weren't allowed to eye gouge", "it wasn't like a proper street fight", "I didn't use my fatal chi strike to his kidneys", etc. You can lead a person to UFC, but you can't make them think. :)

    On the other hand, a lot of people in more traditional styles are interested in BJJ and MMA, but don't necessarily want to train full time. The most useful part of BJJ for self defence is the first 10% you learn and it doesn't take much to show people some basics. We would all benefit from greater exposure to and understanding of BJJ and MMA, just as many people would benefit from crosstraining generally.
  16. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    So basically your way of "educating the martial arts world" is to "storm" a studio, act like a complete asshat, demand a throwdown of some sort, and expect to be taken seriously? It's disrespectful, irresponsible, and quite frankly childish.

    If you asked to come into my studio in a polite and mature manner to exchange ideas and, oh, I don't know, maybe learn something on both sides, maybe the rest of us would take you seriously. And I somehow doubt you are anywhere in the Gracies' league that you can go around and just demand that local instructors throwdown with you. :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2007
  17. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Usually when we have guests from other schools, we open up the possibility of some sparring, because let's face it, when you visit, you go to learn something new, get an idea of how other train and to see how you stack up. The problem for an instructor is evaluating whether the person is safe (has good control, can follow the safety rules, etc) or if they are there to hurt someone (especialy if the "sparring" doesn't go well for them). So, for us, we spend a class or two (sometimes more) with people from other styles so they can get to know us, let us know them and then open up the floor.

    Oh, and if they want a piece of the "master instructor", they get a couple rounds with me first to check them out! :D

    Thanks for the kind words - if you ever in the area, pop by!
  18. stump

    stump Supersub

    I think inviting people to come train with you (rather than imposing yourself on them) is a far better way of opening people's eyes.
  19. Agutrot-

    Agutrot- Jack of all Trades

    I never said it was. I said if you compare the two you'll find out which one is the best. Thanks for the meaningful comment though.
  20. Atharel

    Atharel Errant

    I think someone's a mite insecure about BJJ vis a vis his own art.

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