Does Wing Chun fail against boxing most of the times?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by thegoodguy, May 27, 2018.

  1. Monkey_Magic

    Monkey_Magic Well-Known Member

  2. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    His lineage seems to be mainland wing chun and Vietnamese wing chun which are both different from what was taught in hong Kong so will be interesting to see how they look in the cage :)
     
  3. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    It's also interesting to note that he's a blackbelt in judo and bjj. The few things that I have seen with him doing anything other that training people doesn't seem quite like the wing chun that most people expect. I expect that his round house kicks and the other techniques that have expanded his arsenal are what helps him succeed as much as his wing chun. His record was 2 losses , 1 draw and 4 wins as a pro. He fought in 2004 (loss) and then last fought in 2011. If he can train people then great but I am not quite convinced that it's the wing chun part of what he does that makes them winners. Just sayin'

    LFD
     
    BohemianRapsody and Dead_pool like this.
  4. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    That's just the thing, the diverse levels of "hard". What's hard to you might seem trivial to other people. Boxing is really hard, not just because the training is grueling but because boxing itself is part of the training. Wing Chun seems to also have a diverse set of people training it, from the ones with a lot of reaction and demonstration video but little to no practical application, compared to the Wing Chun in MMA people who seem to have figured that important part out. There's Wing Chun hard, then there's boxing hard. If someone happens to marry the two, more power to em. They're probably the most "legit" Wing Chun there is, compared to some book or old video.

    What's effective but a person? A boxer could be effective, so could a Wing Chun fighter, in theory. Arts aren't effective by themselves. I never saw a painting make itself.
     
  5. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Yes but as we see if you put in a lot of hard work (and effective work) you get results. So either most WC folk aren't putting in hard work or they are and it's ineffective. Either way the art loses.
     
  6. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Just because you can skin a cat any way you like, that doesn't mean that every method of cat-skinning is equally effective, even though in theory they might be. In reality there will be only a handful of methods that are equally efficient, and practical experience of skinning cats will bring about similar principles and techniques even when isolated from other cat-skinners.

    I think it's self-evident that you can look at arts as an aggregate of practitioners and make an assessment as to how effective their training methods are. I believe it is also self-evident that people become good at what they do, and I've yet to meet a Wing Chun practitioner who has regular sparring or unscripted drills in their WC class. WC people become good at high speed, low power coordination exercises, but unless they are in an exceptional WC class that has a lot of unscripted pressure they tend to fall apart at the application stage. The only WC practitioners I've met who could make any of it work live had to work out how to by cross-training in other arts.

    So, I'll tell you what is more effective than a person - pedagogy. It's what sets us apart from other animals, and is why we have martial arts classes instead of fight clubs. Training methodology can raise the bar for the lowest attainers and raise the ceiling for the most skilled and dedicated students.

    To take your painting analogy, imagine two painting classes; one mimes painting famous masterpieces in intricate technical detail without ever putting paint to canvas, the other class get to paint every week with a teacher who guides their heuristic process. The second class is messy and mistakes are made constantly, whereas the first class looks impressively disciplined, crisp and technical. Which class produces students better able to express themselves in the medium of paint?
     
    Monkey_Magic and ned like this.
  7. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    many paths lead to the top of the same mountain.
    It's just that some paths may go the wrong direction first, twirl around a bit, stop part way up at a flamboyant restaurant with a nice 5 star accommodation which has pictures and well documented books of what the top of the mountain is like and an option to stay rather than continue or choosing the alternative more direct paths.

    :D
     

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