Does Wing Chun fail against boxing most of the times?

Interesting. Are there some southern kung fu styles that have some similarities ( in both techniques and principles ) with wing chun?

 

At least in that specific fight we can see that ground fighting wasn't allowed...

 

''Wing Chun might have boxing beat by a couple centuries and at least a dozen movies, if not many real competitors. Basically when I think of the "opinions" I'm immersed in daily, I try to remember that's all they are. Meanwhile out there somewhere is a really devoted Wing Chun knuckleduster who nobody wants to mess with. There's always at least one in this game..always a bigger fish.''

I find it interesting that in many ways we (?people in the general?) have taken it for granted that perceptions of arts equal reality. I can give examples from a number of areas where the perception isn't quite what the reality is.

example: Shiatsu appears to be an old complementary technique but it only was formally created as a system after WW2. The method itself was initially based on more western medical ideas but students of the founder decided that the more esoteric ideas associated with other treatments would fit well.

So what about boxing? It seems that although formal Marquess of Queensberry Rules started in the 1860's we know that forms of boxing have existed since ancient greek and roman times. Wing chun? well at least one record lists that it started in a simlar time ~ History of Wing Chun - Wikipedia

''Wing Chun LineagesAll Wing Chun today descends from six Opera Boat Members who were taught by Leung Bok-Chao from 1845-1855''

This being the case (and you might make other arguments but let's start with this one), then they are at worst probably around a similar length time (but boxing would appear to have a much longer history IMHO) .

More movies? Well there are a ton of boxing movies about but the golden age of boxing was probably about 50-60 years ago and the movies aren't that common now. Similarly I bet in it's heyday boxing probably had more people studying that any other striking style. You only have to look at how many countries have entered boxers in the Olympics and you can see just how popular and far reaching this system is.

Lastly, as far as a devoted guy that no one wants to mess with? Well to be honest I tend to believe that in many cases the guys who were tough would be tough no matter what system they studied as long as they could work out how to use the system adequately. You see a number of guys in traditional MA that would have scary no matter what they did. Maybe that is your really devoted WC knuckleduster but realistically putting the most enthusiastic MA guy against the likes of Sugar Ray Leonard, Mike Tyson, or other warriors with years in the ring would be a slaughter. I'm not slagging off WC, just being realistic. You can theorize about what might happen but in many ways you have to respect an art(s - if you add Muay Thai, Kickboxing and other related arts) that has produced so many talented fighters.

LFD

 

Yes :' )

LFD

 

What he said!

 

Didn’t wing chun evolve from white crane? (I might be mistaken, so am happy to be corrected.)

 

if you refer to the downward arm movement as "gedan uke" (low level defending), you'll never see Machida doing so. but if you look at the movement as "gedan barai" (low level sweep), then it's staple Machida. most of the time you'll see him sweep down the opponent's lead hand before the reverse punch. basic karate.

simple. how similar their training and fighting is. bagua is predominantly built on circle walking. it's a waste of time circle walking when they don't fight as such.

depends on the ruleset. if the ruleset favors the limitation TKD or fencing excels at, of course. but the more liberal the ruleset, the more BJJ/wrestling training helps.

basically, their set-ups suck. Anderson silva's set-ups back then always had his oppenent's initiating. Rousey's set-ups close the distance. it's now defeated, but it worked back then. wing chun's, on the other hand, only works on rooftops of old buildings.​

 

There is one school of thought saying it evolved from southern white crane, hung gar has the same stance, centerline theory and hand movements at the start of most of its pillar sets.
Bak mei, southern mantis all protect and attack the centerline

 

Here is a video of bagua in action particularly the first few minutes other than the circle walking at the start when they actually make contact all you see is normal striking, no spinning circle walking etc it looks like kick boxing no?


I have yet to see anyone post a unrehearsed clip of bagua looking like it does in its forms so again if I posted the above and they didn't do the circling at the start I just showed the actual contact part of the clip would you recognise it as bagua??

Yet the coach of these fighters sees bagua in everything they do just like Alan orr sees wing chin in his and both produce good fighters so who is right them or the nay sayers who say you should look like the form but can't prove it

 

Which comments about popularity, efficacy, or history of Wing Chun? I don't recall making any, but I'm slow. Anybody can make gross generalizations, especially "experts".

I do recall giving the "community" a "pass as a whole because I don't believe in taking things like this video, and applying content in it to "communities". It's really not "common attitudes", either. How did you measure what's "Common"? Experience? Don't make me laugh.

 

A lot. And I still disagree, the pure art of boxing is nothing like it's application from or onto a particular human being. There is a whole universe between the conceptual definition of a jab, and it's presence in a bout. You could teach a hundred people a perfect jab, and have none of them able to do it in action. That's the damn truth. The art, and the quality of the transmitter or receiver, are not the same thing. Sometimes, it just doesn't work.

 

I chalk this up to fear. Fear and boxing just don't mix, so why should kung fu get a free ride? It's just easier to posture than it is to punch another person, and few gangs have got the posture thing down better than kung fu. However, having met plenty a boxer who loved the Chinese methods, I have no hate for any kind of boxing ideas, except for the ones that remain ideas only.

 

Ok mate.

I think I'm going to leave it there.

 

I'm sorry, am I coming across to harsh? I was trying to be a bit moderate, even in the face of disgruntled insiders of particular arts, and worse their external oppressors. It's normal for people to hate things they practice. Ask any musician. But the peanut gallery is always worse.

The original video in this thread is so terrible, it shouldn't be held up as an example of anything, let alone a kung fu style. It's not that I discount the opinions of insiders, it's just that I view them with even more suspicion than my own noobish perspective. They have the bias, I might see things a bit clearer.

 

Not too harsh at all. I simply don't think I have anything new to say and I can't see a constructive way of engaging with the differences in our opinion on this topic.

 

Well, I'm always open to constructive dialog!! Let's start over. I've liked all the Wing Chun people I've met, and a few of them were real boxers. So I have zero experience with the art, but some with the artists. What''s better? I probably won't ever train this art, but I want to understand the people that do.

 

Fair enough! I shall bow to your superior knowledge and experience. It surprises me, but it's refreshing to hear a different opinion.

 

You have never trained the art, but when people who have for years or who have been around it for decades say something its simply a gross generalisation you don't agree with?

I agree with you I mean there's no prove that there is a common held belief in wing chun that a straight line beats a circular one, Nome what so ever, apart from the fact its the basis of the centerline theory and the basis of wing chin.

I mean it's not like yip mans most senior student wsl said the following about wing chin:

[QUOTE]All techniques are designed to be structurally more efficient than other styles and faster


They are Based on principles of both physics and human anatomy and has proven to be one of the most effective style in the world


Its Effective due to its scientific approach to combat


Wing chun punching is always direct since the shortest distance between two points is a direct line[/QUOTE]

Or named his system the scientific fighting method...

 

Full contact vs patty cakes and air punching:

 

You missed the classic Wing Chun vs. Systema video