Does anyone actually need to learn self defence?

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Simon, Mar 17, 2013.

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  1. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    So because I don't bow down to JWT I know nothing?
    No offence to JWT but there are others doing stuff that like, just not as well known and hAve done ,probably, for a while. Other guys to train with who are capable of higher levels of violence and been more violent to leArn from. I know your not claiming any of that JWT so no offense I just find it a funny thing to say.
    I'd rather go for someone like mick coup who can definitely do the business , coupled with leArning to fight.
    Last edited: May 21, 2013
  2. Zinowor

    Zinowor Moved on

    Well, it depends on the individual if his new found self defense skills make him less likely to stand down when faced with a physical threat.

    If you bump into someone on the street or anywhere really and you don't apologize then you're a rude person and is imo a clear invite to the other person that they can get physical with you. If I bump into someone I fully expect the other person to apologize or at least make some sort of gesture he didn't mean for that to happen, because I will as well. If he doesn't, I will take it as an insult and I may or may not inquire him about it.

    If someone doesn't apologize because he knows self defense, he's an awful person and should never have been allowed to learn it in the first place. And if he's a nice person, that shouldn't change because he learned how to defend himself. All that really means is that he was a bad person from the start, but was too scared to fight so he acted like he was a good person.

    So what you're worried about shouldn't be an issue for a proper person.
  3. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Well Im sorry that you didnt receive acceptance of your opnions about the fundamentals of selfdefense. I would like you to know Im not trying to attack you and you should take my following statements as friendly advice from one martialartist to another.
    Now to be very polite and honest with you it sounds like your beginning to think about self defense, not just the physical stuff but the mental stuff as well, congratulations, your on your path to becomeing a good martial artist!!!
    When you talk about real worl self defense it does no good to go on about it if youdont talk about the human fight or flight response, Im not an expert on it so Im gonna let it go at that ok.
    Again your well on your way to understanding selfdefense but your arguments or simply supporting statements for the fact you believe to be true, however your facts are incomplete and only true in and for certain situations they dont cover the whole of self defense lols but I love ya man.
    Keep looking into fight psicology ok, theres lots of stuff on it out there and it will help you understand this stuff alot more. When you train reember to listen to your body inside and out (like there was a doctors stethascope attached to your arm,leg, back, lungs, brain, organs.) dont be critical of what its doing or worry about what others think, try to remember what you read about fight or flight, try to see how it manifests in you and how you react during sparring or drills or when at home in your couch.

    People who have trained repetatively how to escape a wrist grag (key word repetitively) well instintctually preform that simple escape under stress(fight or flght). Its a fact thats why we train that way ok lols hit me back man:eek:
  4. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    Finally some love and acceptance and advice to make me a better martial artist.Gee,shucks, thanks Mr.
  5. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Just watch a couple of boxers going at it for real at a press conference.
    World title stuff it ain't :)
  6. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    Ok, leaving the Phrenology behind, what is your opinion on whether learning self defense is a requirement?

    My opinion all along is that with some basic common sense skills on avoiding bad places and places with lot's of testosterone and alcohol, and not acting like a jerk that martial arts skills really aren't needed.

    As for some wacko smacking you in the back of the head with a pipe all your boxing or grappling skills aren't really going to matter.
  7. Rudolfo

    Rudolfo Valued Member

    You are right in many ways. Any true martial artist, will tell you that your first defense is your head. Using common sense and common courtesy will get you through life with much more health than looking for trouble.

    It's funny but if you ask most guys who train even slightly intensely, they will tell you that they actually get into less confrontations and physical beefs than they did before they started training, due to the humility they discovered in themselves, as well as the exposed insecurities that most men have.

    As far as whacko with a pipe..well its possible but more often than not the one on the receiving in might have asked for it, or not have read the warnings. Also, the pipe (stick, brick, gun even) is your best friend if you are the one getting attacked or ganged up on. Its about the resolve to really hurt someone vs. just to smacking them over "tough guy" stuff.

    Like you are saying...grappling , boxing, karate whatever won't do you much good if you get blind sided, but then again neither will a sub machine gun. That is more or less situational and very valid but you should at the least be able to use your hands to defend yourself and/or a loved when if need be. If you asses the situation and need bigger weapons then go for it.
    Last edited: May 22, 2013
  8. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Ya know what I always tell people who say that to me is that I guess If you want to play the odds game ok its your choice but just ask a Ladie who got raped or a kid who gets bullied (it is at epidemic levels) if he or she would have rather had some sd practice before their attack, most of them say yea I wish I would have had a class on what to do.

    Really sd and ma are like multi tools, they keep you in shape and you get to learn something about defending yourself, I think its a great payoff but Im biased because I love ma. Yea some social skills of some sort or another will get you by but In some places like prison for instance they wont and don't. I lived in the hood for a few years and I can tell you that if you broke down in some parts of town with or with out a cell phone to get a ride you were in deep crap if you were a man or a woman. Its your call though I love either way bro sd or no sd.
  9. yorukage

    yorukage Valued Member

    I'm in the boat of not training for purely self defense anymore, but rather learning my art on deeper levels. I did my share of fighting when I was younger and realized I was a bit foolish. Now I'm a more level headed person and not prone to starting a fight or stepping up to a challenge. However, if I am suddenly accosted I have the training and experience to keep me safe and bring me home to my family.

    That being said, I think women should definitely take self defense classes because they have more to fear. They are mugged more than men and sexually accosted significantly more than men. The actual statistics are saddening. I teach a free women's self defense class each quarter at my school because I feel they should have that training to help them feel more safe as well as learning how to act/be safe to avoid the majority of attacks.
  10. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    I'll definitely agree with this, I don't feel the need to prove myself nearly the way I did before I started back up with everything 4 months ago. Amazing just what 120 days can do. Plus, my first child coming in now under 2 months has forced me to behave differently and look a little deeper into the reprocussions of any actions I might have taken previously. Luckily my Wife has now gotten to the point where she just can't do bar work anymore, so I don't have to go there which is great and helps me to stay out of those kinds of places. Neither of us drink, so we would never have been in any bar without her job.
  11. yorukage

    yorukage Valued Member

    Having kids will do that to you. I have mellowed out big time since I had my two boys. I suddenly realized that others depended on me and I couldn't risk getting hurt or put in jail for even a short time simply because I wasn't willing to swallow my pride and walk away from a challenge. I just avoid challenges all together.
  12. Rudolfo

    Rudolfo Valued Member

    I don't have kids (yet) but I can see how they put a new spin and perspective on what is important in life .. their upbringing and not hanging out and wasting time and money in places where you maybe you shouldn't.

    However, I think now you have a new goal and new reason to train. That being this little lump of your DNA your offspring.

    On the one hand, when you're just in a bar drinking most scuffles are avoidable and over silly misunderstandings or other juvenile stuff. On the new hand, the stakes are high. You now have your offspring which as the alpha in your little tribe / family/ whatever you are to protect with all your life limbs and abilities.
  13. yorukage

    yorukage Valued Member

    Before I had kids I trained to prove how tough I was, or that I was the best, whatever that means, lol. Now I am far more interested in the history of my art and on developing the most perfection in the movements I can. This actually has made me a better martial artist. I teach my classes with this feeling in mind. One of my students disarmed a man with a handgun who tried to kill him, so I'd say it still works great for self defense, right.

    Part of having kids is not being in places that will get you in trouble. As Crosby learns in the TV show Parenthood, when his kid was being watched by the boys grandma while the dad was at a party for work drinking and there is an emergency and he shows up drunk and he tells the grandma, you were watching him, I was off the clock. The grandma says, you are a parent, you are never off the clock.

    But, yes, if we are talking about protecting myself for my family, or directly protecting my family, then I fight with life, limb and abilities like you say, Rudolfo. That is different than walking away when the only danger is hurting ones own pride/reputation.
  14. daggers

    daggers Valued Member

    without reading 42 pages of this i am replying straight to the op

    does anyone need to learn self defence? ..imo not really.

    not unless you live in a very high risk area of needing it. ie- your work depends on it etc
    otherwise it is just a precaution. and wether its protecting yourself or a loved one the chance of ever needing it is probably smaller that many other health/life related threats.

    so if you want to do something to protect them and yourself get them to exercise, eat healthy, not smoke and drink, not eat chocolate and other rubbish linked with obesity and heart problems, get them out of that bad neighborhood, teach them to look after themselves and have self respect and respect others, to understand themselves and their limits,learn a martial art to help you acheive all those things not "just incase you get attacked" That is how to use martial arts
  15. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    Explain how that shows that we move differently in an emergency as oppose to competition on a fundamenatal level?

    It shows their lack of skill in the clinch and grappling.
    When two boxers fight they often go to the clinch and virtualy stop because of the rules and then referee breaks it. It happens alot. Because now there is no ref to break it up, the chaos continues and they just go to the floor or keep clinching. The reason one pro boxer can even go to the clinch with the other in the first place is because they have the skill and experience to do it.

    IMO an average guy with not much fighting experience would not have the expeirence or skill to nullify the attack to get to the the clinch if he was in the exact same situation. If you dont believe me go and spar even semi-pro boxers and see how you get on. A spar is not a fight but a decent indication of how easy or hard it is.

    Now, I have to say that this is not me saying a boxer is some kind of mean machine and that knowing boxing is all thats needed for SD.

    To realy show that pro fighters and their fundamental skills are unimportant or not helpful, you need to show other pro fighters having real fights with each other, like Judo guys or Muay thai or kickboxer guys, or sub wrestling guys or MMA guys to balance it out. Just referring to pro boxing does not give a full picture on althletic movement during emergencys.

    If someone said boxing is all thats needed for SD, it would be a very valid point.

    Boxing has a history in the British armed forces and lots of others and Milling is a training tool. So it must be seen to have some kind value for guys training to go into real conflict. Probably more so for fitness, courage, determination etc, than bouncing around a ring, but no one who would advocate boxing training helping for SD would ever say its because everything you do for competition you must do if its for real. Dirty boxing comes from boxers being dirty. To first be dirty, they first had to box.
    Last edited: May 24, 2013
  16. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin


  17. Happy Feet Cotton Tail

    Happy Feet Cotton Tail Valued Member

    These are totally valid points in favour of Sport MA but on the topic of "the difference between competition and emergency" I'd suggest watching some of the videos that Jwt has put up, especially the "MAP Meet" ones.

    Jwt's videos are fascinating case studies in the way well trained competitive martial artists when placed in an unfamiliar and un-predictable enviroment rapidly reduce the complexity and finesse of thier tool set (i.e. they don't fight in those emergency simulations like they fight in competitions).
  18. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    We fight like we train.

    Right up until the adrenaline kicks in and overrides all those fine motor skills and makes us forget it all, or the opponent presents us with something completely unrelated to how we train at which point we hesitate and revert to basic instinct.

  19. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Ya know honestly if I wanted to develop my Kids character their are a lot of ways Id pick over martial arts frankly, I mean in my opnion MA is a broad spectrum, I can honestly say that I wantmy kids to know ma to kick some bully butt if need be lols.

    I never have bought into the whole belief that Karate or TKD or whatever produces the worlds best results in character building, now that's just my personal opnion.:)
  20. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I think, like most things, it depends on the class. Could kids get the same "character building" results in other sports? Probably so.

    Might some kids just prefer TKD, Karate or Judo to football, rugby, American padded long sit downs punctuated by grunting, or that strange game they play in Australia wearing shorts that are too small for them? Of course they might, so why not let them try it? :D

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