Does anyone actually need to learn self defence?

Adding to this..

I've just been looking at some Gracie Jiu jitsu stuff and realised the SD/fighting skill development/personal development structure I described above is exactly what they do.

The first skills learnt up to blue belt are primarily gracie combatives. Techniques designed to navigate through a real fight (with an obvious GJJ bias). Core stuff about positioning, distance managment, being aware of strikes, etc. Basically the fundamental structure of why GJJ works.
After that skills get expanded and rounded out. Perhaps more competition based stuff comes in. What sort of JJ player are you? Guard? Top side? This is the journey of jiu jitsu.
But over all of that is the personal development side of GJJ which is to "keep it playful". Jiu jitsu as a way of life for personal development, fun and fulfillment over many years.

I think that approach gives training longevity (because most people's goals change with time), variety AND a solid combative underpinning.

 

Self defence to me is insurance, you invest so to increase your chances if you ever need to use your skills.

I agree with the comments that working mindsets like awareness, descalation techniques and mindful behaviours are paramount i.e. I always check religiously every window/door is locked and secured before bed.

One thing I learned recently is you respond as per your training, not all training is going to help with a correct and lawful response to an assault ( I have seen one Krav Maga teacher teaching head stamps!) and will only end with you facing a lengthly jail term with all that goes with it.

I agree that training should be about having fun, getting fit and learning but I really feel instructors have a duty of care to teach the basics of SP and if they can't they need to be honest with their students and what they are learning.

Osu!

Dan93

 

I agree that proper mindset is perhaps the most important factor when it comes to self defense. Due to the nature of my job I get in a lot of altercations but up to now most have been verbal because I was aware of what was happening and I was able to deescalate the situation. The times that I actually had to get physical with someone I felt was a failure on my part. My ego got the best of me, I made a statement that I shouldn't have and I just allowed the incident to get beyond my control when I should know better since I'm the professional dealing with a civilian.

Even in my private time off work I've realized that most of the time I've been involved in a fight it was due to some fault on my part; my hotheadedness overriding my maturity level or something like that.

 

let's face it, learning to fight is a hobby. most of us will never ever actually have to restrain or fight anybody. and fighting is only a small part of self defense. if anything awareness is probably the biggest thing for defense.

 

This is the opposite to my experience.

While many people may have a phase of this after a bit of training (and most of us have probably met unhinged and paranoid people who never got over it), I found that reducing fear of violent encounters has allowed me to be more polite and chilled-out in tense situations. The confidence to not take poop from idiots who use intimidation as a social strategy is a big boon to good training IMO. Abuse and bullying relies on fear, and can be subtle too. Even though it's not usually about fighting, the knowledge that you stand a fair chance should the situation reach that bottom-line can release people from the fear of asserting their boundaries (whether social or physical).

I think that this can have powerful and far-reaching effects on a person's character.

Violence is part of us, whether or not you ever find yourself in a violent situation it can still cast a shadow over the psyche.

 

This is spot-on, especially the bit about fighting one person multiple times, but with one caveat: the way some arts train one-on-one is detrimental to mass attacks.

For example, in our system we learn to strike in all directions from day one. This is not because we expect new students to be able to take on the hoards single-handed, because to be able to fight one person multiple times requires highly developed techniques and physical attributes. However, training with mass attacks in mind from the get-go means that you don't have to re-invent the wheel if and when you reach that level.

 

I get where you're coming from, and agree with the sentiment, but it's a much better deal than insurance. With insurance, you are essentially betting that something bad will happen to you, and if it doesn't you have lost out. With training however, even if nothing bad happens you still win, because of all the other benefits you gain from doing it.

 

Good post.

 

3 reports as of late.

1) A friend of mine a nice gentle well-mannered salt-of the-earth fella was commuting home this week. Across north-west London.

Busy Thursday night train. 7pm ish. Three youths began kicking and pushing him around. Seemingly because they thought they could. No real warning.

My friend has no martial arts or self-defence training. Admits he panicked a bit. And just let them kick him. Until he pushed one to the floor and managed to boot another one.

They started piling in with punches etc.

Another passenger spoke up. And said youths slapped her. Bit of a furore. Old fella and lady got stuck in. Youths legged it off at the next station.

A few lumps and scratches but nothing major.

2) My daughter reports she was followed by a 'creepy guy' at 1am. She went through a warren of the council estate she knows well.

But he kept following her. So she lobbed a housebrick at him (hit him in the shoulder apparently) and legged it sharpish. Home in one piece...And I keep begging her to get some training.

3) My cousin who's 6 ft 5 and weighs 22 stone (310 pounds) was started on by three angry ramblers. After he shouted at them to 'get orf moi land'...He's a farmer and they were walking straight across a restricted area.

Said ramblers started getting shirty after they complained the signs were in Welsh and they couldn't read them (it was in English too). And that they had 'the right to roam'.

So told him where to go...He didn't manage to say exactly why they shouldn't be where they were.

Three minutes later the ramblers came running back with dread looks.

"There's a Bloody Big Charging Bull in there and it's coming this way!"

 

If you know how to force your opponent's arm to bend so his hand won't be able to reach to his pocket, you may be able to save your life that way. If you also know that leg is longer than the arm, it will give you a lot of advantage.

 

If you really have no choice but to get into a confrontation, it's always helpful to have one on one experience, and be fairly proficient in them. Always work toward your strength, if you are good at one on one, then if

attacked by a group, try to get it to happen one on one. If there are two, position yourself so you only have to fight one at a time. We have a two on one section in our bb testing, and these guys are fresh fighters,

while you're dead tired, throwing punches and kicks as hard as they can. And they have a good rhythm, they never hit each other, they always just get you. No rest, and others are giving some helpful hints such as,

"LINE THEM UP", "PUT THE SMALLER ONE INFRONT." I've been on the giving and receiving end of this, and to have guys coming at you that hit that hard while your almost so tired you can't bring up your hands, it helps

to line them up. You only fight one, so long as you can line them up, because they will end up jamming each other up. They will never hit each other with punches or kicks, but they might run into each other's bodies.

Sometimes it looks like a game of tag, where one person is that guy in the middle, while there is somebody going from left to right to avoid the person behind the middle man. In a group, I don't have much experience.

Going with two or three is just lining them up.

 

Ah thanks, sorry, I didn't think about it at that point. It worked for me, so that's why I spoke of it in that way, about a year after that testing, I had to defend myself against a group of two individuals, I was walking to the store to buy some orange juice (just to explain what I was doing before hand), and it worked for me. Probably because there was a huge amount of room for me to move around in. And also because they probably weren't experienced like in your confrontation. They had their heads down and doing overhead punches. My mind just went back to the testing because immediately I thought, "Oh my God, not this again." And I remembered the advice I was told, and I used it. Sorry, I shouldn't be generalizing my opinions like that.

Edit: Looking back ... I shouldn't have taken that short cut to the store. If it helps, I took the sidewalk on the main street (the regular way) instead on the way back.

 

I think it's also good to know, at the back of your mind, that you could handle yourself if you had to, even if you don't want a confrontation to escalate that far. Helps you to be confident and assertive when dealing with difficult people.

 

A very succinct version of what I was trying to say

As pack animals who dominate through the threat of violence, I think that alleviating that anxiety allows you to circumvent many social pressures.

 

Agreed somewhat, though isn't it martial arts schools' job to also move with the times and offer a more comprehensive syllabus that includes meta-fight material? The need for that obviously depends on specific art/school (e.g. some people enjoy certain arts for fun, philosophical or "art" reasons and their first priority isn't to learn to defend themselves. Those MA school that do claim to teach self-defense however need to teach all aspects of it.

There are as many notches on the need scale are there are people. Depends on a lot of things. Probably not many. It's all about odds. Odds you are going to get into a hairy situation that would require some SD knowledge are slim for most people. However my position has always been that everyone should have some rudimentary knowledge in it. I am talking about basic moves though, not meta fight stuff. Avoidance, deterrence and de-escalation are maybe facets that should be taught at school as part of civic education...

I honestly doubt it unless you do study all facets of SD. Even then, because the reaction you have vs a threat hinges more on biological responses and your personality makeup than whether or not you train in a dojo 2-3 times a week, many MA practioners end up in fights all the same. I used to think that higher ranks were all zen-like, let-it-roll-off-your-back people. Not so much.

Well, ignorance is bliss. Co-workers and friends always show interest in trying SD and ("what's that stuff you do...like...karate or sum'thing??") when they:

1. Hear of some from news about local murders/rapes etc.
2. Get themselves in a near fight and realize they don't know how to defend themselves.

The person who trains in SD and some extent MA is either naturally aware of potential dangers around him or just naturally enjoys training as a hobby and kills two birds with one stone.

Some, yes but this isn't a rule of thumb. Good instincts on avoidance depends from one person to the next, whether they train or not. Obviously, training does give you an advantage, but I know some people who train who couldn't or even wouldn't avoid a fight to save their life, and untrained people with enough savvy and common sense to avoid bad places, people, situations etc.

Hopefully yes, otherwise what good is spending time on it at all? But again, I think that what the brain knows can easily overridden by natural biological responses. The better the training in avoidance/deterrence/de-escalation, hopefully the better the practitioner can learn to control the situation...and himself.

If only it were that easy, many fights would be avoided.

 

Confidence and assertiveness go a long, long way in avoiding physical altercations indeed.

 

This.