Do you carry Weapons?

1.What the hell are you talking about? I meant that they arent likely to use their martial arts training to inflict injury on others.
2.I am proficient with most handguns, rifles, and automatic weapons. (I'm not trying to brag or anything stupid like that, i just happen to like practicing survival skills, which includes hunting and general marksmanship)

 

yes, but i've put in many hours of shooting practice (including war games using airsoft guns and large teams in both woods and urban environments) it's not easy, but it gets easier with practice.

 

No, you haven't. What methods did you use for your research (someone said so? Your friend's cousin's brother in law spoke to a cop once? You walked into a Police station and asked? You actually gained a printout of the specific laws relating to the carriage of knives for defence in your state?)?

Hey, you're the one carrying knives. I'm simply pointing out that's bad for the martial arts community, considering your immaturity relating to the subject. Communities judge us by people like you.

Here is the PM killbill sent me after this post:
What do you carry and why? If you don't carry weapons, explain why not. I would like other's opnions on this (I carry a pocket knife and a throwing knife)
You live in California and carry two knives? No no, you see, martial arts is better inclined to those whom have a life-wish rather than a death wish.
You've investigated the legalities of weapons carriage in your state? Envisioned the applicability and a preparedness in the use of any items you prefer to carry?
Certainly training in a dojo environment may provide a familiarity for improvisational tool usage, such as substituting a set of keys for shuriken, etc, so that in the ages past medieval turmoil one may still utilize relatively inane objects around them, capably to assist preserving their safety.
I would suggest good training would serve far better than proscribed or questionable weapons carriage for the street.

Why should you have found my post condascending? Do you feel guilty about your activities? In what manner are you "properly trained"? What, in your mind constitutes "properly trained"? If you have "checked the laws" why didn't you simply state them? Is what you are doing illegal? Should we therefore not talk about it? If this is the case, why did you begin this thread? How do you know if a fight is "only a fistfight"? Are you that (wow) experienced as to manifest absolute prediction to street confrontations? How far does this 6th sense of yours extend? Are "fistfights" never "life and death situations"? How do you know? What was the body of your experimentation/source of your research?
In which manner did I "assume to know everything"? Does my signature threaten you?

If you do not wish to respond within the threads to my posts, killbill I should never hold that against you. However you chose to PM me twice instead. Don't PM me in order to respond to a thread posting of mine. Post.

Why the hell do you want to make out to have something between us when you could simply post a response (oh the California laws say <such and such> or, yes I've thought about that however <such and such>). I still have nothing against you, killbill, my advice would be to take all this forum materiel in good humour and maturity is automatic.

 

I know several police officers whom have infirmed me on what is considered illegal. I consider myself properly trained because i have received knife handling/fighting/throwing instruction from a former military instructor. I took a negative response because this thread wasn't about whether it was right or wrong to carry weapon. As far as knowing when it's a serious situation and when it's just a bar fight? If someones life is being put in threat of death, that's a serious situation. TO MAKE IT EVEN CLEARER, if someone is armed with a weapon or if several people are beating one person severly and they refuse to stop, thats a life threatening situation.

 

And BTW
this is what i found condescending:
"You live in California and carry two knives? No no, you see, martial arts is better inclined to those whom have a life-wish rather than a death wish."
so i have a death wish because i'm armed? interesting.

 

Well, either the terrorists of the streets have gotten to you, making you so afraid of living in California that you dare not go unarmed, or you wish for sombody attacking you, so that you can kick their butt (or rather stab it)

In Norway people get killed, shot etc. from time to time, but most people that are not paranoid would still never even think about going armed. It's just as with car accidents; the risk of getting into one is is there, but people still don't stop driving cars.

Carrying weapons tends to escalate a situation. The US army carries more/better weapons than most, and just see how violent things tend to get around them...

 

I carry my nunchaku when I'm going to train with my friend, because the people near where he lives don't like me... and wouldn't hesitate to try to start a fight...

 

To those, who do punching&kicking MA, are not forbidden to leave their hands and legs at home. Back in Japan there was no problem to carry a weapon on the street. Now in England a crane sword i was forced to buy. But in fighting a big difference is so i was pushed by law towards a certain death

 

Aiki's point has absolutely nothing to do with profiency and has everything to do with real world experience and factors like adrenal dumps. Chance are while you, and most folks, participate in target practice, you probably do little to no pressure testing of your firing on a moving target.

The simple fact of the matter, which Aiki and Stolenborn have both attested to, is that within 30 feet, a knife wielding attacker can cross the distance and start stabbing before most people can:

1. Draw
2. Disenage Saftey
3. Draw Bead
4. Shoot

There's a reason for bayonets. And this is also while most police forces allow cops to shoot a person with a knife from 10 yards or so away (something a lot of civilians don't understand the logic behind). Guns are effective in specific situations. But they are not a panacea for self defense and anyone whose done tactical training work with them will agree with our posts.

- Matt

 

Usually when I go out I will have a min. of a good folding kinfe ( CRKT M-16Z Desert) and more so than not I carry my S&W .45 w/ 17 rnds. But then again that isjust me.

 

That's what I understand and have experienced from my training. (I also carry regularly.) Knives are nasty. Anybody that carries should practice this with a friend, a training knife, and a plastic training gun (remember the Four Rules; don't use a real one for training like this). Under controlled training conditions, I'd give at best even odds to the guy with the gun.

Then add adreneline... your shooting goes to pot. (Practice, practice, helps.)

Then add surprise. Oops! There goes a few precious seconds.

Fortunately, better than 19/20 times when a firearm comes into play, the assailant flees.

Amen to that.

 

If I could carry a weapon, I probably would. But the Government doesn't allow ANYBODY to carry weapons of pretty much any sort for self-protection. I always have a steel ball-point pen in my pocket, and some coinage, but that's about all I can legally have on my person.

 

A small Bersa .380, extended magazine, total ten frangible JHP rounds.

My wife won't let me have her little compact .45.



Plus it's easy to wear IWB.
Best I can afford right now --- the best dollars went to my wife.

 

Ah yes, the Tueller drill. It's been used as an excuse by cops all over the world to blast away at anyone who gets within a few meters of them. But it's not quite that simple.

In the original experiment a guy with a knife and one with a holstered gun stood facing each other. At a signal the first would charge. The second would try to get his pistol out and fire. At about 21 feet the runner could usually close the distance before the shooter could draw and shoot.

Contrast that with the NIJ's and FBI's internal studies which show that most confrontations - police and citizen end up about the same - which involve pulling the trigger are roughly "3x3", three meters range, three shots fired.

The Tueller experiment doesn't take a lot of real world stuff into account. Things like awareness of pre-attack cues, stepping out of the way, drawing when the attacker doesn't realize you have a gun and so on are all very real possibilities that are ignored. For that matter, being cut doesn't mean the fight is over. Plenty of people have been hurt and still shot their assailants.

I think of a late lamented gentleman named Tim. His martial arts consisted of two tours Riverine Navy in Vietnam. He actually held most MA in barely concealed contempt. At the Shot Show a few years ago he volunteered for a demonstration. The demonstrator was a self-proclaimed grandmaster of Combat XYZ martial art. It went something like "And if I'm within 21 feet you can't shoot me before I kill you."

First time Tim shoulder rolled at the signal, came up and shot the Grandmaster. At this point the GM made what Tass used to call a "serious personal error". He uttered The Words(tm). "You can't do that. That's not fair." Tim gave the traditional ritual response "Want to see it again?"

This time he stepped out of the way, pistol whipped the guy and then shot him. Good thing they were using Simmunitions.

 

Good post.

A lot of men have believed such things right before they died. :woo:

A joke with a lot of wisedom often shared by ARMA members is, "Don't bring a sword to a gun fight and don't bring a small, slow to reload gun to a sword fight".

 

i have a baseball bat in the car. when i get good with the chucks they will be in the car also. actually my gym bag with the rest of my tkd stuff

 

Great information Tellner. I'm definitely going to use this to conduct some research. Couple questions:

So this is police and citizens defending with a firearm? And if I'm reading that correctly, that's before someone crosses three meters of range, the gun can be drawn and fired 3 times?

I totally agree that any situation is far more complex than simply to people drop out of the sky and one attacks. Pre contact cues are critical. And drawing before the attack is important. My original point was that the gun isn't a magic solution to a problem. And from what I can tell, many people who own guns as self defense tools don't train with them as self defense tools or tactically carry.

And the story about your late friend Tim is very pertinant. However, to consider someone like Tim, a true Warrior, as the rule and not the exception may not quite be fair either.

Oh, and Cosmo, why the heck would you carry a bat in your car when you can't easily fit that through a window. As another thread has raised, doesn't it make sense to carry a weapon that you can deploy or quickly access within the car rather than one that you need room to swing or have to open the door to retrieve?

- Matt

 

Worded that poorly, didn't I?

Most shooting incidente, whether police or "civilian" are at about three meters or less and involve a small number of shots, usually three or so.

 

no disrespect intended wotsoever but those 3 reasons come across pretty minor...

if u train a martial art a useful aspect is to control emotions such as being nervous.

how can you not plan on getting into fights? unless you have the power to generate a plasma forcefield around you at will, nobody gets wot they want.

....well bruv, i would rather be doing a life sentance than being the cause of somebody else doing a life sentance, nuff said.

Soj


EDIT: btw no hyping, jus dropping my opinion innit
peace