Do you agree with what this instructor says in this video about ethics in martial arts??

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by thegoodguy, Jun 5, 2018.

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  1. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    You keep saying thinks like that like I attacked your mother or killed your dog, or that I hate you and I'm out to get you. If that's what you got out of my posts, you missed my point as much as you missed Mitch's point about the signature.

    I don't think you're a bad or dishonest person. I didn't come here with an axe to grind about Marbo; I'd never even heard of it until I first clicked on that link in your signature a week ago.

    My main point deals with my general frustration about the judginess and style-bashing that I sometimes see on MAP. And when someone lights into other martial arts for teaching gun disarms with plastic training guns, or saying that board-breaking are tricks to recruit the gullible during demos, or talk about people selling a fantasy with extreme situations, and really complaining about the contents of other arts' advertising efforts and public face, I don't think it's fair to just say "well you can't judge anything about my style based on our advertising materials." Especially when your style's website and facebook page has photos of awfully-compliant-looking gun-disarm training with a plastic gun, survival fantasies ("urban evasion"), etc. To me, that comes off as throwing stones inside a glass house. I'm not saying "your style is trash and you need to leave it." I'm saying "if you think your art is excellent and shouldn't be judged by the quality of its website or public face, lighten up a bit about what you find on Krav Maga websites or in Taekwondo demos." If you don't want Marbo to be judged by its advertising materials, don't be so fast to judge other practitioners based on demos and websites.

    Training in board-breaking doesn't teach self-defense technique or tactics. There's no thought to distance, defense, following-up an attack, reacting instinctively and immediately, anything like that. But the confidence, focus, and power you develop in board-breaking are attributes you can bring to other parts of your training, including your self-defense training, improving those results. The confidence and commitment parts especially when the "self-defense" you're talking about is a ten-year-old learning anti-bullying self-defense, as opposed to an adult learning how to protect themselves against a committed attack from an estranged ex or something like that.

    Like I said, it's kind of like how physical conditioning helps self-defense. Lifting weight and doing box jumps doesn't teach you to fight (i.e., technique or tactics), but it can help your fighting (i.e., attributes). I still don't see how that's controversial or contradictory.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
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  2. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    You referenced my website, but I am out there teaching it, so visible to anyone who wants to see it.

    Indeed my views on the straight blast were questioned and I was at the MAP Meet teaching it. Not a watered down version for the masses, or a sudden change of mind on what to teach because I was questioned.

    If they don't care for it, but want to ask questions of me or who I train with I'll tell them.

    Telling someone to request a CV is all a bit secretive, as all anyone need say is, "they did 10 years Tang Soo Do, with 5 years close combat with X, Y and Z."

    I only ask out of genuine interest.

    Note: This was edited, as the initial post didn't come out.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  3. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Mod Note: Missed it at first. Knee Rider, watch the masked profanity please. Thanks.:)
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
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  4. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Quite honestly I'm surprised no one else finds it ironically hilarious that someone pointing out other martial arts failing when it comes to gun defence, disarms and the context they exist in has "dicked around with plastic guns and disarms" because it's "fun" and chooses them as one of the few pictures they decide to show on their facebook page.
    Seemed a case of trying to have his cake and eating it too to me.
    Let's not pretend that David isn't intimately involved in the art he teaches in a way that few (any?) of us are. In my art I'm one amongst (probably) millions and have no control over how it is promoted, taught and developed (not even in the club I train and occasionally teach at). He could probably have a word with the guy who put the pictures up and say they are making them look a bit daft when they net train together.
    In Marbo he's one of something like 2/3 instructors (it's hard to tell) and could have that facebook page changed in an instant if it doesn't properly reflect Marbo.
    Marbo is an art, let's not forget, that once claimed lineage from ancient Egypt, the Vikings or Vampires or something. I forget the details and obviously that's all been deleted by now and all there is is some vague background about "mah bu" stances and such.

    Ultimately I genuinely LOL'd when I saw the Marbo gun disarm stuff and thought others would too. I was just pointing out I was mildly amused by the whole thing with the hippo meme.
     
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  5. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    And Druids.In Transylvania. Faux druidic/Celtic stuff happens to be a pet peeve.

    Pathwalker Guild
     
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  6. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    What an edifying read that is.
     
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  7. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Reminds me a little of Pete Delane's Bushido org.
     
  8. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Didn't that end up as a horribly abusive cult?
     
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  9. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Yeah, it did.

    It was an outwardly average karate Dojo with a fraudulent history and an unhinged cult leader as Kancho.

    It was a personality cult serviced by well meaning dupes until they got to the deeper levels...

    Not saying marbo is the mirror image but I can see some similarity.
     
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  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

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  11. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

  12. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    The Secretary of Marbo (at least circa March 19, 2012) stated in that thread:

    That sort of secrecy requirement just isn't healthy. And it makes debate on MAP really hard. Am I going to get someone kicked out if I ask them how Marbo teaches gun disarms and they answer the question with specifics?
     
  13. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Lots of questions.

    1. Why European body types.

    2. Influences from these styles, or trained in and certified?

    .

    3. Techniques analysed!

    Surely if it's tried and tested the techniques are known to work.

    4. Which army and police force?

    5. They've drawn from boxing and expect it to take 6 months to defend from a punch to the face.

    And so it goes on. 130 techniques for first grade and another 200 for the next.

    Personal street survival course 8 sessions (yet it takes 6 months to defend against a punch).

    Women's self defence course

    11-p1.jpg

    Yeah, 'cos that's gonna work.

    Lastly, why the different website?

    Marbo

    If this guy can have a different site, then surely David can do the same if he wants to disassociate himself from some of what is claimed.
     
  14. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    In some ways I like that website much more because it's reasonably honest and open. No Transylvanian Rangers wandering the earth doing good deeds with their special weapons. Or was that Babylon 5?

    I think there's lots of stuff on there that raises suspicions; another art claiming to be one of the first MMAs for example, pictures like the one below are used as examples and look like a ninjutsu lunge punch to me, etc etc

    I think the other pictures on there don't do it any favours, like the one Simon mentions above.

    But at least it's not cultish nonsense, babbling about ancient organisations and secret brotherhoods.

    And at least "personal protection" is last on one of the lists it gives as benefits, and not on another list at all.

    . 7-p1.jpg
     
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  15. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I'm interested in the flying knee to knife disarm.
    18740326_762458963932230_1086525626070398873_n.jpg
     
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  16. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Sorry for the late reply, I've had a lot on.

    Honestly, I thought it was the other way around. I genuinely don't feel that I have any beef with you, and you have made some valid points, and also some I have disagreed with. Not sure if there is anything productive that I can add to the conversation to be honest.
     
  17. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    As am I. The only difference is that I only do that in person.

    I honestly don't know the previous MA history of the chief instructor, beyond the fact that he did practice other MA before Marbo. That, and it's not my place to share information about others.
     
  18. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    If anyone is interested, I said all I could about that in the thread. No point repeating it again here.
     
  19. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    This guy has a different site because he left the organisation and decided to create his own thing under the same name. This is all in the thread linked by El Medico too.

    You'll have to draw your own conclusions about "European body types" and whatnot, or ask him, the fact it says that all are welcome except bigots on the Marbo facebook page would indicate that ethnic selection is not something we do, or would ever tolerate. I believe he's teaching Krav now though, that website hasn't changed since I first came to MAP for the Pathwalker Guild thread, so I'm guessing it's dormant.
     
  20. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    That's not a knife.
     
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