Do Ninjas and Samurais Still Exist

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Willbeanijnja, Aug 10, 2003.

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  1. Willbeanijnja

    Willbeanijnja New Member

    I personally think that Ninjas and Samurais still do exist. there is no proof that they do. But, more importantly there is no proof that they were ever "extinct". They could be still fighting eachother or other ninja/samurai clans as we speak. I want to hear everyones opinion on this I know that everyone thinks differently. So who agrees with me!!!! Also if anyone out there knows a person that can train people to be a ninja/samurai please let me know.
     
  2. thiaboxr2

    thiaboxr2 New Member

    Should of posted in gen. discussions.

    Latest news is for updates to the site in general. There is another site that discusses whether or not ninjas exhist. Just have to look for it.

    Welcome to the site!:D
     
  3. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Yes it should :D
     
  4. juramentado

    juramentado lean, mean eating machine

    I don't think they still exist for a number of reasons.

    You have to realize that ninjas and samurai are creations of a medieval period in Japanese history. They served as vassals and "officers" in the feudal armies. And as such their martial skills are the result of constant clan warfare and a social order that allowed them to do nothing else but fight and train to fight.

    So too with the ninja. They existed in a same specific period in Japanese history and circumstances made them an integral part of that society.

    None of those social, military and cultural factors are present in Modern Japan. The feudal wars are part of history and Japan is a united, modern industrialized nation, a long way off from the fragmented war ravaged land it was centuries ago.

    I guess you can still find ryu that teach samurai and ninja martial skills, but that's just passing on the physical techniques. Your question was about actual samurai and ninja existing in Japan and IMHO that means people who are molded by the same cultural and social factors that created the medieval warriors. People like that and the world that created them are long gone.
     
  5. Goju

    Goju Yellow Belt

    I believe that samurais and ninjas still exist if there are people that still live by samurai code (watch movie: Ghostdog, about a hitman who lives by samurai code) then they would be considered samurais wouldn't they?? as for ninjas, there are martial artists who are adept in the 18 ninja arts, I think it is how they use them. If someone was an honourable assassin, like a vigilante killing criminals and they were trained as ninjas, I would percieve them as real life ninjas!, but people like that don't come along very often. Of course... all my theories are based on movies and video games so if it sounds unreasonable, its probably my screwed up imagination! :0
     
  6. Willbeanijnja

    Willbeanijnja New Member

    I see what you are saying juramentado but did you ever stop to think that Japan needed them after that period to maybe spy on America or other countries but so that no one would know they stopped documenting them and trained them harder so that their stealth abilities are unmatchable or findable by any technonlogy any country has now. Basically what I am saying is that ninjas and samurais may be still an integral part of Japanese society but now they just keep it "secret".
     
  7. Tireces

    Tireces New Member

    And I am saying that you've seen quite a few too many movies, my friend.
     
  8. thiaboxr2

    thiaboxr2 New Member

    People may live by the "code of the samurai" nowadays. They may even practice or train in the their lifestyles. This may be the closest to an actual samuria living amongst us.

    The same for the ninga. You may train in their "ways" and learn their "dark arts" for your whole life but that doesn't mean they exist. Many years ago they were in abundance.

    Just because I practice Muey Thia does not make me a Thia boxer.
    Living by the code of the samurai doesn't make you one either.
    The tradition of their arts still exist and are being practiced today.
    They only live through movies, documentories and books now.
     
  9. Andy Pandy

    Andy Pandy New Member

    .... LMFAO!!!!!!! If they can turn completely invisible and not give off any body heat at all and not make a single movement and not make the slightest sound of vibration... then maybe they can evade modern day hi-tech equipment... but I very much doubt it...

    I think it makes u a thai boxer if u practice Thai Boxing, thats what Thai Boxers are... people who have trained in Thai Boxing.
     
  10. Willbeanijnja

    Willbeanijnja New Member

    You guys make excellent points but you still do not see mine.

    You dont have to believe me but I think that even if the did exist we wouldn't know for sure.


    "Seeing isn't believing, believing is seeing." Just because youve never seen it doesnt mean it does not exist.
     
  11. Tireces

    Tireces New Member

    First off, the Samurai weren't even stealth artists, so I doubt you'd find one that can magically become invisible. Secondly, the ninjas werent magicians. They didn't have uniforms, and usually hid themselves among the population. After the advent of guns in Japan and the fall of the feudal system there, these groups faded away. Are there people who study them and their ways, or preserve ancient "codes" they upheld? Absolutely. But these ways are not the ways of today, and so they do not exist as the organizations they were. You'll never find Samurai fighting for anyone on any battlefield, because a plate-armored man with a sword would get ripped apart on a modern battlefield. The same goes with ninjas. Any assassin work that isn't done with the classic drink poisoning,trap, or planted bomb is likely done by an expert marksman with a sniper rifle, and in the cases of heavily funded work, even with a precision cruise missile, but certainly not with a ninja-to. To think that there are ninjas running around with some kind of "ancient secrets" that enable them to be leaps ahead of the rest of the world is pure insanity, and it seems to me, the product of one too many a bad action movie.
     
  12. Brad Ellin

    Brad Ellin Baba

    Yes, there are ninjas. No, they are not like anything anyone here has described, and in MOST cases, they never where.
     
  13. juramentado

    juramentado lean, mean eating machine

    Willbeanijnja:

    I think you've been watching too many bad movies.

    Samurai and Ninjas are more than just really good martial artists. There are the product of a specific time in Japanese history. The both existed then because there was a society that allowed them to.

    Living by the samurai code in modern Japan does not make you a samurai. An accountant can live by the samurai code LOL. But to be a samurai in the real sense means that you carry a katana daily and will not hesitate to use it if someone so much as brushes against it in public. Such a situation is impossible in modern japan.

    Modern intelligence gathering is more much sophisticated than anything a feudal ninja could possibly imagine. Why learn to use a ninja-to when there are a so many more convenient and efficient modern weapons available? And an intelligence field agent does not take out sentries LOL. They accomplish the mission by not being detected so killing anyone in the way is not a good way to do that. As for assasins, Tireces is quite correct. Why strap on claws and climb the castle wall when some C4 or a anti-tank weapon will do the trick?

    But you can believe what you want to believe. My daughter believes in Santa Claus and that's ok with me :)
     
  14. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Good debate!

    I was thinking Ghost Dog was the closest you could get to a modern day Samurai, trying his best to live by the Hagakure teachings and using guns and other modern day equip.

    But, the code of ethics where writen for a certain time, if you use them now in many ways you'd just become a criminal or hitman like Leon or Ghost Dog, and that just doesn't tie up to the Samurai ethics.

    Can martial artists be Samurai/Ninja? Or would they be like a Soldier without an army and any chance of war. In many ways your just becoming a one person historical recreation society.

    The closest and most truest Samurai in society today may be the top level government/army agents, these are the people with latest training/equip/reason to do the job!

    :confused:
     
  15. juramentado

    juramentado lean, mean eating machine

    Not quite. Government agents, of democratic nations anyway, don't have the unwritten authority to kill any civilian that doesn't follow every word they say. The samurai had that power. They served lords and other royalty and they were at the top of the food chain in medieval Japan. Their authority is absolute and they didn't think twice about killing entire villages if they didn't show proper respect to their lord.

    The government agents on the other hand serve their military superiors, who likewise serve the civilain government. I would presume that in the US and in most countries of the world it's illegal for a government agent to kill a citizen on the spot for not paying the right amount of respect to the elected president.

    I think this discussion brings out a few point..

    The past is the past and let's be thankful that the martial arts of the feudal japan are still being practiced and taught. But those arts are the creation of another time and another era, with morals and ways totally alien to us living in the 21st century. It's a romantic notion to think that samurai and ninja still roam Japan but there's a deluge of facts and circumstances that make it almost impossible. Society and the world has changed so much since then and believing that such people still exist is like looking for a T-Rex in the Florida everglades..
     
  16. Bon

    Bon Banned Banned

    Troll job?
     
  17. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Only trying to compare to the closest examples of them in modern day life. And government agents in "democratic" countries have been known to travel around the world tracking down and unofficially killing many people, mainly teroists. I think Israel would be the best example. But it was only a dodgy comparison at best.

    Do you think theres value or any relevance to living by Samurai/Ninja culture in modern day life?
     
  18. mani

    mani Valued Member

    I think that ninjas have changed over the years, and yes they prob do u exist today but in a different form,

    Wearing a nice suite and so on.......
     
  19. mig29

    mig29 New Member

    I think some tactical operatives can be considered like ninjas. Like those special units in army u know. But samurais... only if a samurai could be like Robert De Niro in the movie "Ronin".
     
  20. 47Ronin

    47Ronin New Member

    ninja do exist..
    just with modern weapons like a silenced pistol or so forth.
    the reason they used swords and shuriken back then was because that was all that was available so the modern day ninjas are basically paid assassins.
    the samurai age was pushed out by the meiji government.
    sure you still can follow the code i even consider few people modern day bushi(samurai/warrior) myself included. we study the old ways and abide by the rules set by our leaders like as if the shogun was the president and governors are like daimyos and senators and mayors like generals so if you think about itwe still live by the old ways but just with technology. just because someone wrote the age of the samurai is over doesnt meen we dont live with the spirit of the bushi inside of us so we still live amongst samurai whether you believe it or not. (just not like wilbeaninjas idea of people fighting different clans)...........
    this is the truth accept it or not...
     
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