Discussion in 'Silat' started by old timer, Jan 14, 2005.

  1. old timer

    old timer Just well worn !

    Could any one point me in the direction of any websites or training videos for Djurus as in the Magda Institute schools. The reason that I ask is during last nights Kali class we moved on to Silat and started to learn Djuru No: 1, never seen it before but I would certainly like some more information, any useful web sites would be greatly appreciated.
  2. old timer

    old timer Just well worn !

    I now beleive the style of Silat taught at my school is Buka Jalan Pentjak Silat. I have searched on Google and do not seem to be able to find much about it, neither video's or DVD's. Oh well more stuff for me to learn what with JKD, Kali and now Silat all at the same time I think my head is going to explode with so much to take in.
  3. silatliam

    silatliam Valued Member

  4. old timer

    old timer Just well worn !

    I was speaking to one of my instructors this morning and he told me the Djuru's are taken from a system of Silat called " Venge ", he was not sure how it was spelt, can anyone shed any light on this for me, once again Mr. Google is not much help.
  5. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Your instructor doesn't know how to spell an art he's teaching from?
  6. Sgt_Major

    Sgt_Major Ex Global Mod Supporter

    Certainly not a good start.....
  7. old timer

    old timer Just well worn !

    You are quick on the ball Yoda. My instructor ( not Dave Carnell ) takes care of the pre phase JKD class and on Sunday mornings it is JKD with a little Kali and Silat thrown in, he is not the Silat instructor he just shows us a little extra that we will be learning from the other instructors in future phases, I was asking him if the Djurus we were shown last Thursday by Sifu Dave were from the Buka Jalan Silat system as it is the one that is advertised on the wall bords in the training area, and he said probably not as we incorporate 4 different styles of Silat and when I pressed him to tell me what system the Djurus were taken from he said " venge " but seemed a little vague. I will ask Sifu Dave Carnell during the Kali class next Thursday, so I wouldn't say it's not as if he doesn't know what he is teaching as he is good at what he is supposed to teach, just people like me with probably more experience of martial arts tend to push for more knowledge and insights, for example I also had a go on a wooden dummy this morning for the first time ever after saying that I had never tried one, probably my own fault for being too inquisative.
  8. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    No such thing as too inquisative mate :D

    I'm sure Dave will know the spelling :D
  9. milamber

    milamber New Member

    Jurus or not Djurus that is the question

    Hi Old Timer. The word jurus, in a martial context means movement both with the use of hands and feet. Every style has its own variation of jurus. some are as short as 4 movements and others are as many as 50 movements. Their common purpose is to master the basic principles of the art and to own the movements.

    Jurusan are jurus with a partner - hand drills - langkah - throws - locks and pins can all be practised in this way. For instance if you apply a basic side block against a straight right, using an L-step to get to the inside of your opponent's right leg, you would follow in with a right punch to the exposed ribs following the movement up with a right elbow to his chin and dropping it down again in his exposed sternum. You would then gelek, (twist/coil) anti-clockwise with a right knee strike to the inside of his right thigh dropping him to the floor. as you step back you can strike the top of his head bringing it forward onto your left knee striking his face. Finish the application with a downward right elbow to the crown of his head.

    That would be a Jurusan. The same movement can be applied without a partner and would be called a Jurus.

    Jurus are fundamental to the silat student. without their practise or even knowledge the lines that one travels in are broken or have no chain to follow. I suppose it is similar to a kata. The only difference I can see is that a jurus is never fixed it has to be adaptabe to how the student moves - his height - the environment. A jurus teaches the student the basic understanding of flow. What a mean by that is that when delivering a strike the movement of the attack naturally flows from one posture to the next - action reaction and so on, or from one strike to another through correct alignment, hands and feet moving as one and the use of the gelek.

    Good luck in your training
  10. SteveJKDUK

    SteveJKDUK New Member

    Hey Old Timer. I was just about to go to bed when I read this! I think what, or who you're referring to is "Ventje" (I think it's spelt like that - never really studied Dutch!), who was one of the inheritors of the Serak system that was passed down from Pak Serak many moons ago.

    The Djuru 1 itself is from the Serak system of Pentjak Silat. Buka Jalan is Cass Magda's curriculum that combines various systems of Silat and Kali that he has studied.
  11. old timer

    old timer Just well worn !

    Christ Steve, I am even more confused now, my head is going to explode.
  12. SteveJKDUK

    SteveJKDUK New Member

    The Djurus themselves, and a large portion of the Silat we do originates from the Serak system of Silat. A lot of the Silat sweeps and takedowns you've seen in the school are from this system. Pak Serak was the founder of the system and over time, the system was taught to a guy called Ventjes. I will need to ask Sifu Dave what significant part he played in the Serak curriculum or system because I honestly don't know enough about it.
  13. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    Steve Perry wrote an article on some of the confusion and difficulties about doing history in the Western sense in a traditional culture where the sources all disagree with each other :bang:

    In this case there are a few things which will help:

    Buka Jalan is Cass Magda's personal expression of Kali and Pencak Silat. If anyone has tapes or DVDs of the curriculum it will be him.

    One of his most important influences was the Serak system. He studied for a number of years with Stevan Plinck and Paul de Thouars and later in the Netherlands with others from the de Thouars and de Vries lineages. Ventje de Vries was an important Serak practitioner, one of Paul de Thouars' uncles if memory serves. Whether the juru you learned has anything to do with Serak in general or Ventje de Vries in particular is another question. You should probably ask the head Silat instructor in the school. If he doesn't know, ask his teacher.
  14. Silatyogi

    Silatyogi Valued Member

    bukajalan & serak

    There are many pieces of Serak and Bukti in Bukajalan djurus. The motions are wider than Serak Taught by Pendekar Paul. Guru Cass has 5 performances for each djuru or 5 different ways to variate some of the motions. Also his djurus are set up to counter eachother.

    I learned originally From Guru Cass, Bukajalan Djurus (I learned Approximately 11 of them). But now I am learning Serak with Guru Cliff Stewart.

    It's my impression that Guru Cass created those djurus from his influence of the way Pendekar and the Devries perform their djurus. So some of the movements although similar are somewhat different than Pendekar Paul's method.

    I have seen video of Pendekar Paul doing all 18 Serak Djurus. In my opinion they are different in the sense that there is more emphasis on structural integrity in the way they are executed and also the movements them selves are tighter and more refined.

    If you want to learn Bukajalan Djurus my best advice is to take Privates with Cass or go to the summer camps. I noticed that the people who attended his seminars and camps knew more principles and Djurus than those who only trained with him in a class room setting.

    Good luck


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