Discussion of universal (?) sword principles

As a quriosity, roman soldiers is often shown wearing the gladius on their right side. I've tried to draw the gladius with my right arm with the gladius on the right side (baldric, not sword-belt), and it's actually not partiqularily difficult, once you get used to the consept. We've developed a theory that if you fight in a tigt formation where you're squeezed and have lobbed your Pilum, it's easier to get the sword out when it's right below the right arm than if it's on the left side, where your shield-pressed to your torso might get in the way for you to pull it.

 

I'm calling BS on this one. Not all iai is about speed-drawing (hayanuki is but one aspect of one type of practice, and even that is done later on).

The iai-from-seiza thing has been done before, many times. Look up how and why Ohmori Ryu was formed, and you'll see why seiza iai exists today. There are more combative methods of squatting, crouching, or otherwise quasi-seated iai in many styles (e.g. Eishin-ryu tatehiza).

I've wondered about the MSR variants of Gyaku-Inyoshintai and Tora no Hitoashi; those use a backwards-ish draw and block IME (the MJER variants seem to use the front of the blade). The initial draw-grip for the block is nonstandard as well; I find it weird, especially given what most people say regarding blocking and deflecting and which parts of the sword to use.

Oh...is that area Scottish-Gaelic-majority?

 

OK guys I have put my ass on the line by posting video of aiki ken on the aikido an insight thread.feel free to have at me (within reason)

Bronze statue

Glaswegian is a very sophisticated language using one word to get a message across.

Like yoolgoawaywaeyerheidinyerhauns.Usually said to local bullies.

or achyerbumsootthewindy

meaning you are embarassing yourself.

It sounds most poetic with a Scottish accent.

regards koyo

 

Whether speed is involved or not the idea of practicing to brandish a weapon, according to Neo-Confucian thought is simply declasse'. This is one of the reasons there is such animosity between scholars and military men down through Korean history.

From the standpoint of Korean sword, the idea of practicing 8 or ten different ways of drawing a sword from a given posture was probably considered a matter of diminishing returns. This why I tend view a closer relationship between Korean sword and the philosophy that bolstered such military practices as taught at the Toyama Academy in Japan. Koreans are about utility and a Straight Descending Cut is a Straight Descending Cut, and thats pretty much that. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

I disagree with that Bruce,

In my training in KSW we have drawing and sheathing exercises from kneeling positions, horse back positions, stationary, and moving. These are designed to give the student a foundation and ability to be flexable in handling the sword in any given situation. IMHO if you don't practice these type of handling principles it will limit your understanding of sword techniques. Thoughts?

 

Not to disagree with you, Obewan, but we are talking about two different things.

The Post-War practices which purport to be based on time honored Korean traditions have been heavily modified to reflect the much-popularized practices that have come out of Japan. Among these practices have been MUGAI-RYU, EISHIN-RYU and MUSO-JIKIDEN EISHIN-RYU all of which have a variety of techniques accomplished from kneeling or sitting positions. Prior to the Japanese Occupation (1907-1945), Korean sword did not have these methods, demonstrating only one SODASE (lit: "shortened stance") in the entire BON KUK GEON BEOP hyung; about as close to a "grounded stance" as one gets.

Observing KUK SOOL WON, HAE DONG KUMDO and HWARANG DO practices I find a wealth of jumping, tumbling, rolling and knee-walking that no intelligent Korean warrior would even consider on the battlefield. As for scholars and bureaucrats, the use of the Korean GEOM was used almost completely after the fashion of the Chinese JIAN for which there is no acrobatics that I know.

For myself, I have no problem with people enjoying themselves by inventing novel ways of proving their gymnastic skills. However, the material that I practice, while less novel, is probably a bit closer to the utilitarian material the Koreans have practiced.....boring as that might be.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

I don't know Bruce, it would seem to me that there would be some sort of evasive tactics incorporated into battlefield technique for dodging attacks, retrieving weapons, and other situations where acrobatics and rolling would seem to be essential. That is how I rationalize the practicallity of them. Thoughts?

 

Willfully going to the ground in a situation such as a melee is a really, really bad idea. Further, if you factor-in the debris of battle, dead and wounded, broken ground and features such as rocks, stubble, weather and stumps the odds just get worse. And I have'nt even gotten to things like cavalry, entanglements, pits, water hazards and barriers.

There are any number of methods in traditional Korean sword but they are sound basic sword methods not altogether unlike the military sword work that the Japanese taught their soldiers just prior to the Second World War. This is not fancy, eye-candy swordwork, but sound, basic sword-handling.

In a couple of months I'll have a clip of the 8 BON or "routines" and you will see what I mean. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

The Toyama ryu have the happo giri eight direction cuts. ALL of these may be executed from the scabbard using upward downward horizontal and diagonal draws.

If there is a relationship between Korean sword and Toyama ryu these draws which are FUNDAMENTAL to Toyama ryu must surely be included.


below Obata Toshihiro demonstrates earth to sky draw.


regards koyo

 

Thanks, Koyo:

I have been having the devil's own time working to sort through the Japanese military sword. Apparently there are some very strong feelings among the various groups.

The military sword evidently began with European sabre and transitioned back to the use of the KATANA. The material taught in the academy was taken from a number of traditions, and then that practice broke into three separate but related practices after the war. Later, one of those three practices became the SHINKENDO practice. Sorta makes my head swim. I have Obata's books and I also have Nakamura on tape and its quite a challenge trying to identify any real differences in the actual execution. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce