"Dim-Mak" or "Why Ninjas play guitar"

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by David, Nov 2, 2005.

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  1. David

    David Mostly AFK, these days

    I've been taking guitar lessons for the past few weeks; it's led to this observation for those who think dim-mak and pressure-points are impractical.

    When you start learning guitar, you can't make your fingers go to the strings/frets accurately, you can't press the frets hard enough and you can't do it fluently. Sometimes you only have to hold two strings down and they're next to each other (easy) but others your fingers are all over the place and at very awkward angles. Even when you've placed the fingers right, you can't get the chord to play.

    And that's only the left hand (on a right-handed guitar student)...

    I've been watching loads of live music recently, watching the guitarists (mainly) do incredible stuff. They don't have to look at what they're doing, they don't have to be in static positions relative to the guitar, it doesn't have to be a particular type of guitar (they vary in size).

    A friend of mine practices his left-hand guitar by putting his right arm up as if in a sling and treating it like the neck of a guitar - he makes chord shapes on the top of his right forearm with the lefthand.

    Recently found a SPM site with loads of nice pictures showing pp/dim-mak seizing - the hands reminded me of chord shapes and I thought, one day I'll be able to do that.

    My point: given that people can learn to play guitar, why doubt they can learn multi-point dim-mak attacks, which are basically similar?

  2. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    That's a very interesting post!

    Um... no other opinions really, but it's an interesting post.
  3. CobraKai

    CobraKai Valued Member

    Interesting, i've been playing guitar for 7 years now, maybe i should branch out...............
  4. Garibaldi

    Garibaldi Valued Member

    That is an interesting post!

    I'd add that when you get the techniques right, its not necessarily about pressing hard but at the correct angle...either on a fret or a pressure point.

    Having said that though, a lot of the amazing stuff you see guitarists doing, especially with fast finger work is as much to do with the upward speed and recovery of the fingers to a neutral position as it is to do with the downward pressure. Its all about finding short-cuts for finger positions...not sure if the same theories would apply as you advance in multiple pressure point strikes.
  5. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    You know you're doing well when the first three posts contain the word "interesting" :D
  6. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    I've never doubted you can do them it's just I doubt I could do them whilst hammered with the guitar moving and trying to hit yoou back :D

    Incidentally, I've never seen a really convincing looking multy point pressure point attack before, anyone here seen one or got videos?
  7. David

    David Mostly AFK, these days

  8. xen

    xen insanity by design

    nice thread :)

    i hadn't thought of this before and i've been playing guitar for years...

    when you play and you look at what you are doing with your left hand...it is actually harder to do...when you trust yourself to 'know' where the hand should be going...the playing gets more fluid and you can concentrate on the 'music' rather then the 'mechanics', by looking away from the left-hand as you fret the neck...the actual business of finding the correct point on the guitar neck becomes more subconscious...

    perhaps that is the same for pressure points..? the supposed abilites regarding these methods could be more to do with 'intuitive opportunism' than 'preconceived direction' of the fingers to a particular target...?

    ie, years of training experience means that the subconscious notices opportunities where a pressure attack opening is available and the hand is directed there almost automatically...?

    just like a guitarist who can 'jam' a solo won't be thinking..'first finger, string 5, fret 15, bend up a tone, slide down to 12, trill fret 14 with middle finger, slide down to fret 5, run down to A through the blues scale...etc'...they would be just be thinking...'cool, we're all on the same page' as the harmony and rhythmn fall together nicely.

    hmm, beware dojo-mates...the xenmaster's going to be playing you like a dave gilmore solo from now on :D (knowing my luck they'll hit back with some metallica or slayer and puncture my sorry ass :D :D)
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2005
  9. Lithanwif

    Lithanwif Human Punchbag

    Probably much more effective to just swing the guitar at their heads I would have thought
  10. hùng.pham

    hùng.pham Valued Member

    Hmm... like some others who have already posted, I play the guitar too... (as well as electric bass, piano, saxophone, sing... uh... you get the point, this is not a forum for that anyway. :p ).

    Maybe develop a new martial art? Gee Tah Do :D

    Anyway, to address the original question:
    I'm not 100% sure what multi-point dim-mak attacks are :confused: , but I think people can learn to do almost anything (within reason of course).
  11. oldshadow

    oldshadow Valued Member

    A more accurate comparison would be if you took the strap off and had someone stand behind you to hold the guitar then they started moving it while you were trying to play it. This doesn’t take into account even if you do manage to hit the pressure points what effect they would have on a resisting adversary. I’m sure with practice someone could learn to hit a stationary object/training partner very quickly and accurately. This has been shown for years in various “demonstrations”.
  12. Bil Gee

    Bil Gee Thug


    The general problem that people have with dim mak is not that it's too hard to do, simply that they don't believe it has any value.

    If it is a matter of a well practiced dexterity, like playing a musical instrument. Surely, by now there should have been at least one practitioner who was able to demonstrate that effectiveness. Yet the only demonstrations of dim mak I have ever seen (and I've looked hard) fall into two categories.

    1) Powerful blows that require no "chi" based explanation for their effect.
    2) Amazing techniques that unfortunately only work on "believers".

    The credibility of Dim Mak hasn't yet got to the point where people argue that it's too difficult to master.
  13. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    That ISSS interesting, as I just went over some stuff today about pressure point striking.

    I'm not saying dim mak here, meaning energy strikes, or death TOUCHES, but actually pressure point attacks.

    Now alot of people say its hard to do, or not realistic, but when semi-sparring (meaning no pads, but not rocking each other in the face either) with my friend, and telling myself before hand that I wanted to try some kyusho (PP) I found it not all that difficult to do. I mean, if your constantly thinking "i MUST strike THIS target" they are difficult to find. But if you know just a few of them, like the one at the bend in the elbow, the one in the armpit, and the naval, they just kind of present themselves.

    Striking his hook punch at the bend of his elbow def gave some good results, go try it.
    I dont know, I can only imagine what people can do that train religiously at PP strikes, and maybe even PP combos. Who knows, really?

    Last edited: Nov 4, 2005
  14. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Only that they aren't really that similar.

    If you consider how your body functions under an adrenalin dump and the resultant decrease in fine motor function under and adrenaline stress environment... then you start to understand that your fine motor skills goe right out the window.

    So for instance - if you decided that the best way to sueth the 6'6" 250lb savage beast at the end of the bar that is coming at you is to grab your trusty Fender strat and blast him with a strum of the F#7 or C7 chords... or heck really go for broke and teach him a lesson with the blues scale in G...

    Then you're most likely a dead man. You'd be better of swinging your strat like a battle axe and attempting to implant your pickup in his skull.


    Because there is no way under adrenaline stress you will have the fine motor skill capacity to employ any of those chords or techniques. Much of the same applies for any physical skill done under adrenaline stress. Environment is a massively contributing factor... so you're guitar lesson that is relatively safe and cozy is a completely different situation than one where you are under fear of physical attack.

    I don't doubt that people can learn multi point Dim Mak techniques... I would however question just how effective they would be at employing them under adrenaline stress. Read up on adrenaline and fear and how your body responds to them... it will give you more insight into what might or might not be possible.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2005
  15. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    Thats funny, I seem to recall using a one effectivly outside a court office one day. Not possible you say? I must be magical... :rolleyes:
  16. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter


    You employed a G#7 on your Fender Strat under adrenaline stress conditions outside of a courthouse?!?!!??! :eek: :eek: :eek:

    I think you need to actually understand what is being posted before posting your war stories there tough guy. :D
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2005
  17. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    You said pressure points weren't possible under adrenaline fueled conditions. I know thats not true. Thats all....

  18. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    First off - go back and re read what I've posted... it's backed up by current scientific fact on the physical limitations placed on the human body due to adrenalin dumps. You capacity for fine motor skills along with a whole host of other functions are severely diminished when under the effects of an adrenalin dump.

    It's scientific fact.
    Read up and be amazed and informed... or live on in your present state.:D
  19. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

  20. xen

    xen insanity by design

    uh oh...the band has all started playing different tunes... :D

    i don't think the original post was meant to draw a direct line between learning scales and chords and doing the s3cr37 d3a7h touch of doom...

    it seemed more like someone saying, when you don't know how something is done it looks impossible...when you have practiced somthing for years it becomes easier and more plausible...

    and a metaphor was drawn between PP attacks and guitar skills...not a literal statement of fact...

    my own post was merely refering to how it is often more difficult to think about doing something than actually doing it...and then a bit of humour was thrown into the mix regarding 'playing people like solo's'

    i guess we're back to...'you can do it' - 'you can't do it'...circles again...:rolleyes:
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